WiggyHobbes Scavenger Hunt - Part 2

[Wiggy]

So there I am about to take off for a few days and what lands in the letter box but the LONG AWAITED  certificates!!

Edna's birth says she was daughter of Edward Cecil and Edith Gaunt - as expected - Edith was the informant!!

Edith's second marriage to George Forsyth says she was a widow - also as expected.  George was a Baker - (and the George in the Kenya Regiment was his son George.  I have it from the horse's brother.)    The marriage was held in a registry office parties lived next door to each other at the time according to the certificate.   Witnesses are not names I recognize - Maud Newhouse and J N Threlfall - both fathers of the couple were already dead.

I have heard from a descendant of Edith's that Edward abandoned his family, leaving Edith with three young children.   She couldn't manage and put Claude into an orphanage - hence the Barnardo's home and references.

The informant believes Edward took off to Tasmania when he left the family - this doesn't quite add up,  unless Edna is indeed George Forsyth's natural daughter.  I have been invited to ring my contact so will do that probably - in the next few days maybe.  Have further email contacts to make to sort that out.

However it looks as if we are looking for Edward's death outside Britain!!     Hmmmmmm     

Wiggy

[majm]

So....

It is entirely possible that Edward Cecil G may NOT have told his family in Tasmania about his second marriage ... and thus they were unaware that he had three English born children...  AND he didn't keep in contact with his Tas family either, for THEY thought he had disappeared "beyond the seas"in May or June 1908 ... but in fact he disappeared during WWI ... 

So we are looking for ECG perhaps using an alias (umm ... RANSOM was his mum's m.s., but there's always Mrs G # 1's m.s. or Edward Cecil GRANT or ....  ) ...

Interesting though that Edith's second marriage says she was a widow ... any possible clues as to when she became one ... any faint writing or obscure marks somewheres.   I presume that the Registrar would have asked her about that .... but it was during war time, so it would be easier for him to accept say "he fell at the front" .... BUT he ought to have checked .... Back in pre civil registration days and when the penal colonies were still just that, if either party was NOT either a bachelor or a spinster, then the widowed party needed to sign various legal documents before the licence to marry was approved.  This was based on UK instructions issued by WHITEHALL... And the original parish record was meant to include the licence # so that those affidavits etc could be easily found if anyone came forward to make a complaint of bigamy...

WWI UK medal cards  (but he would have been quite old, so had to fib on enlistment papers if that was his way to bolt )
OR
in any of the Dominions WWI records 
OR
as a merchant navy chap
OR
............................. hypothetically there's always  Plan  D, E, F or any of the other remaining letters of the alphabet

We can eliminate the one at Five Dock NSW in 1913 ...
BUT we cannot eliminate the one in 1908 on the SS Suffolk...
AND we need to think of where-else to look, or else we have yet another ERNEST on the books ...

Ummm.... Perhaps there's an RChatter with some deep knowledge of those records in the Nova Scotia archives ........ for crew lists etc.

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Hi Wiggy,

Also, on Edna's b.c. what was ECG's occupation and his then address.  ... And is that near to the address of either Edith's address on her m.c. to George...

Can those witnesses on the m.c.  be found on any records in the UK? (They were  Maud Newhouse and J N Threlfall)

Cheers, JM   

[majm]

Wiggy, what EXACT date did Edith marry George please...

There's an Edward RANSOM who fell in France, possible 20 Oct 1915 (although this could be enlistment date)... although I don't have a clue about reading the Medal Cards properly...

RANSOM Edward, Cpl,     Rif Brig,     Reg. # S/9992     
3 Medals ...   VICTORY M/102  B/18 2375      BRITISH    do   do       15/Star   M/1B    776
 K i A   Theatre of War    FRANCE   Qualifying Data  20 . 10 . 15
B W & V H Roll amended to read Cpl  Auth M/102  B/18 Enc  5A
N.B, where the address could be ... it is left blank.

OR    (AND notice same date)
Edward RANSOM, Pte, R.A.S.C. R.E. , Regtl # T4/129095;  WR1254849;    153642
3 Medals ... VICTORY RE/102  B67  page 13555        BRITISH   do   do       15 Star   R.E. /19C  703

And under the heading REMARKS and bracketed to the references for the Victory and the British medals

Ret'd  (992 TR  1923)  8426 / aldt

Theatre  of War first served in    (1)

Date of Entry therein 20.10.15

Perhaps a quick post on the WWI board for help  if I may make a suggestion ...

Cheers,  JM 

PS.  I think second one would be   Royal Army Service Corps, Royal Engineers, Royal Engineers  BUT THESE COULD ALSO REFER TO THE ONE PERSON ... noticing that the  medals may have been Ret'd  ... perhaps R E T U R N E D ....

[Wiggy]

1. Edna was born at 65 Miles street Toxteth Park. on 3 Mar 1914 - birth was registered on 23 April 1914 - that's not quite 2 months after the event!!    Edward's occupation was given as Electrical Engineer (Journeyman) - like that with the 'journeyman' in brackets.

2. Edith was remarried on 6 March, 1915 at Registry Office, District of West Derby, County of Liverpool they lived at 20 and 22 Barnet Street West Derby.     (There is a note outside the columns,  to the right of  the cert which appears to say twenty twenty - no idea what that means - if anything!)

I think Edward could have been too old for the war!   50 in 1914 - but he may have put his age down       
- even so I bet he wouldn't have been taken on so early in the war - unless he was still on board a ship which was co-opted into the war effort - I find that hard to believe so early in the piece - it was still the phoney war until Christmas of that year wasn't it??   They weren't calling all comers until later were they? -  after all they kept thinking it would be 'all over by Christmas' -   

This continues to pose problems!!   

Wiggy

[Wiggy]

Might be an idea to search the NZ BDMs for any sight of him - my next task!

 - specially if Claude came this way looking for him - well came this way anyhow!! -  maybe looking for him with vengeance in his heart considering what happened to him!

Wiggy   

[majm]

So in theory, based on the documentary lawful evidence that your hard earned pennies procured,  ECG was with Edith in August 1913, and at that time he was an Electrical Engineer (Journeyman) but sometime before 6 March 1915, Edith had not only become a widow but had met and become engaged to George and  so she married George on 6 March 1915 ... but George didn't want Claude around, and Edna retained Edward's surname, marrying as a Gaunt in preference to her step father's surname... 

Intriguing ... 

Cheers,  JM 

[Wiggy]

Very intriguing  - and not necessarily so,  as Jaywit and others have pointed out!! 

Wish something would fall into place!!      

I've driven a long way - I'm off! - thought it was feeling later than my watch is saying - it says 7.30 - but the computer says 9.30  and it feels like 9 30!!

Wiggy

[majm]

Hi    Suggestion..... read replies 11  12  14  and put dates into line with recently received certs  and also look  back at when that chap resigned from the labor league.   agh....  theree is ECG could well be.   Pennies to be saved up BUT get the lancs cert first  ie mc for 1915 for Edward Gaunt.  Wiggy again I have woken up in middle of night with the thought PRIMARY docs are best ever better than the official docs which are second hand record of the primary doc.           Cheers  JM