KEMPSON of Nottingham & Australia

[majm]

Hi Martin, 

Seems to be the wrong Henry as he came to south Australia in 1840 !

Your Henry who came to South Australia in 1840 could well be the chap who fathered Thomas Winfield Kempson in 1838...  Afterall, Jane Kempson nee Winfield is without a husband on all those census entries transcribed by several RChatters.


Cheers,  JM

[majm]

From images of electoral rolls for Timaru, Canterbury, New Zealand

1905/6 
Eliza Winter KEMPSON, Barnard St, married
Henry KEMPSON, Barnard St, gentleman

1896
Eliza Winter KEMPSON, Timaru, domestic duties, residential
Henry KEMPSON, gentleman, residential

I have carefully checked my transcriptions of those two rolls.

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

And,

Death of Jane KEMPSON, at age 80 was registered in the Basford district of Nottinghamshire in the second quarter of 1891.  The GRO reference for that death certificate would be Vol 7b 158.

1891 - 80 = 1811 thus it is possible that Jane was baptised Jane Winfield 16 April 1811 as mentioned in my reply # 34.  Of course, that particular death certificate ought to be obtained to check, verify, validate, confirm etc.  I wonder if her son Thomas Winfield Kempson was the informant and/or the registrar.
 
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl 

That links back to the  " Welcome to FreeBMD.  FreeBMD is an ongoing project, the aim of which is to transcribe the Civil Registration index of births, marriages and deaths for England and Wales, and to provide free Internet access to the transcribed records. It is a part of the FreeUKGEN family, which also includes FreeCEN (Census data) and FreeREG (Parish Registers). ...."

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Perhaps a m.c. for 1838 that may be of interest (ie just after civil registrations were introduced, and the newly appointed registrars were learning the ropes)

Registered at Nottingham in the second quarter of 1838,  Ann Winfield to Henry .... GRO Vol 15, pg 811 ..... I note that several of my mid 19th Century forebears used Jane and Ann as interchangeable given names...   A copy of that m.c. could perhaps be of interest ....

Cheers,  JM

[sparrett]

Well JM,
You have offered a very thorough set of research postings for all invovled.


Do hope Sevendays is back later to help swing the thoughts one way or the other re his own research!

Can't help feeling there has been a  serious  mis-step somewhere in both  Sevenday's  and Martin's records for life events of HENRY.

A decent certification somewhere along the line of important events would be persuasive

Sue

[majm]

Thanks,

I have one further supporting clue for both Martin and Sevendays.  As they seem to be descendants of Henry Kempson, I would hope their interest would extend to sort out the mis-steps with some certificates.  After all, family history is meant to be historical fact and not factoid.  (Factoid .... as in repeating something often enough so that people tend to believe it must be based on fact, when it is simply a half-truth or a mis-understood overheard piece of backyard gossip shared orally with gestures and similar contributions.   Factoid .... another way of saying "Urban Myth" or "Imaginitis"...

As far as I can see, after reading back through several of Martin’s threads, it seems to me (and to others in our household) that Thomas Winfield Kempson who was baptised 3 December 1838 in Nottinghamshire, England as the son of Henry and Jane KEMPSON could well be the son of the Henry Kempson who arrived in South Australia on the vessel Rajasthan.  That ship did not depart London until 27 October 1839, nearly 11 months AFTER the baptism of that child.  That child stayed with Jane, Jane doesn't seem to have any further children, and this chap is traceable right through the UK census, his marriage, and his adult life....

Edit to add  Thomas Winfield KEMPSON's civil birth registration is indexed on the Free site linked earlier, and is GRO ref Vol 15, page 423, for the Basford district Nottinghamshire. Registered in the final quarter of 1838. And,
Someone else looking for information about Henry Kempson ex the Rajasthan, citing the marriage to Jane Winfield, giving details of that marriage as St. Stephen's Church, Sneiton, Nottingham 13 Jan 1836 ...that person was looking back in March 2009, ....  and there's a reply too, with additional information http://genforum.genealogy.com/kempson/messages/110.html

perhaps those later marriages were not lawful.... or perhaps Henry and Jane had formally ended their marriage...

Cheers,  JM

[sevendays]

Hi
Yes Henry was an interesting guy it took me some years to dig out.
Martin wait till you get to see other issues that faced the earlier generations.

Back to Henry.

I will go looking for my shoe box where I have some certificates.
 However from clear memory the most helpful one was the marriage certificate to Ellen Yuille. That showed he was a widower with Elizabeth dying in 1847/ 08 ( he could not remember the exact year) and his own parents being Thomas and Charlotte Kempson of Nottingham. It showed he had only one child, that more or less can be understood. First I guess he did not want to mention Thomas jnr to his new wife. Second, oral family history said Frederick had been fostered out to the schoolteacher in the goldfields ( Castlemaine Victoria where he grew up). I guess Henry wanted to keep the children count down. He could not escape Henry jnr. Henry jnr was with Henry on the goldfields before returning to Adelaide to live. Both Henrys signed a petition against the mining license tax.
There is an early  Adelaide newspaper story about both Henry jnr and Frederick when they were year young being lost to the bush probably around 1848, being found and rescued by a local aboriginal tribe.
I get back when I find the shoe box.
Regards
Sevendays

[majm]

Hi Sevendays,

Definitely agree that this chap was an interesting guy... 

From the m.c. for Henry to Ellen .... when it is convenient to you, would you please confirm what is recorded on that document .... I am anticipating that the certificate records responses from both the bride and the groom supplied to the clergy when the couple approached him with the view to marry.  I have found that the Victorian marriage certificates are very informative, and the following list may be of help with your reply.
 
  Its reference numbers
  Where and when was the service
  the denomination
  if by licence or banns   
  The given and surnames of both the bride and the groom including any previous names
  Whether they were bachelor/spinster/widower/widow (and the date of death of any former husband or wife)
  the stated ages of the bride and the groom
  The names and ages of children of each previous marriage (including any deceased)
  The birthplaces, occupations, ages, of the bride and groom
  The then present and the usual addresses of the bride and groom
  The names of each parent of the bride and the groom, including the maiden names of their mothers
  The occupations of each of the fathers of the bride and the groom
  The names of the witnesses
  Did any signed with their mark, if so, which ones...   the bride, groom, any of their witnesses,

Also, Sevendays, from Henry's 1907 death cert in NZ, does it confirm any earlier marriage or give his parentage and / or his birth place  ....  I have not found that d.c. listed at the online NZ BDM

PS, now that you have reached 3 posts you should be able to send private messages to any other RChatter.

Cheers,  JM

[sevendays]

Hi
Found one copy of original church record and.one certificate.
 
1- Church record from Congregational Church Adelaide signed by Thomas Quinton pastor dated Wednesday morning march 9Th 1842 "Henry Kempson and Elizabeth Parker after due notice were married "

2- Certificate registered by John Go minister Church of Scotland Pitfield dated 20Th July 1856
"Henry Kempson widower July 1847 or 1848 1 living child 2 dead birth place Nottinghamshire profession- stockkeeper - age 39 of Bonny Yallock - parents Thomas Kempson - farmer and Charlotte Stokes
Ellen Yuille widow 18th March 1854 - no children -maiden name Whittington birth place Liverpool England- age 37 of Bonny Yallock parents Henry Whittington capenter and Catherine Hughes"

So that confirms the direct link back to Nottingham and  leaves the little problem of Jane and Thomas jnr back in Ruddington and why Henry left. As I understand Adelaidle being a non convict colony was a popular location for wealthy family to locate  a son who had a problem. The Stokes were well established farmers in Kingston on Soar ( I have been to the the Stokes manor which is now Nottinghams University's dairy research school) and Thomas senior mother had been very well connected and his uncle John Kempson was a seriously wealthy London druggist and massive landholder in Herefordshire. However, I have now knowledge of the reason why he needed to do a runner from England.

Regards
Sevendays