Firms existing in Swansea c 1919-1920

[ambers]

Hi Phipps

I have just noticed the number of the house...No 39 St Helens Road.

1901
Thomas Milward/49/Widower/Civil Engineer, Glamorgan
Edna V Propeyshir /23/widow/ Lady Keeper (that's odd) Somerset, Bristol
Louie Jones//26/ Servant/ Swansea.

As there is a Servant, I am not sure of Edna's status in his  home.

We are not allowed to do Look-up's for 1911 because of Copyright.
You can access the information at Find my Past, the Search Index is Free and then purchase Credits to view the original.

I have a host of scribbled notes about your family but don't think I was able to find Thomas in 1891, who was his previous wife?

Ambers

[phipps1]

Hi Phipps

I have just noticed the number of the house...No 39 St Helens Road.

1901
Thomas Milward/49/Widower/Civil Engineer, Glamorgan
Edna V Propeyshir /23/widow/ Lady Keeper (that's odd) Somerset, Bristol
Louie Jones//26/ Servant/ Swansea.

As there is a Servant, I am not sure of Edna's status in his  home.

We are not allowed to do Look-up's for 1911 because of Copyright.
You can access the information at Find my Past, the Search Index is Free and then purchase Credits to view the original.

I have a host of scribbled notes about your family but don't think I was able to find Thomas in 1891, who was his previous wife?

Ambers

Ambers,thank you for this information. I appreciate it very much !
I am confused about the number "39". I always knew GGfs address to be either 1 Brunswick Place or 148 St. Helens Road,or both.That's curious.Maybe he had yet another house.
If it was the 148 St.Helens Rd,it was a big place,so maybe he needed a House Keeper type and a servant too. I know he had a chauffeur for his car but don't know when he bought his Renault.That man lived in the loft above one of the three   garages in the side street part of the house.
The interior of the house that S.T.Lucas did an inventory of in 1919 and which I have a copy is described as ~
Basement: 2 large basements.
Ground floor: Yard  1st area/ Yard 2nd area / Scullery / Housemaid and china pantry / Kitchen / Entrance hall / Dning Room / Sitting Room / Breakfast Room /
Stairs ( 1st) and Lower Hall. /

1st Floor : Front bedroom / Landing / 2nd bedroom / outer passage landing / Bathroom / Store Cupboard / Large Office / Drawing Room / 2nd Stairs .

2nd floor : Landing - 2nd floor / Top Front bedroom / Back Bedroom / Top stairs.

3rd Floor : Bedroom / Top front room / Attic access.
I'm thinking it all might have been too much for just one servant !
The thing that really worries me is he is listed as a widower in 1901.If he is my Thomas Milward,he was not a widower until the 4th August 1910 when his separated wife of independent means, Sarah Ann Milward ( Morgan) died at Essex.They never divorced !
Then in May 1913,my GGF married Lily Murphy from Devon.He died in 1920 and Lily died in 1970.
In 1891,I think GGF was already estranged from his wife.She got a separation order in C 1892 .
In 1887 Norton Lodge,Oystermouth,the family home since 1876 was absolutely gutted by fire,only the walls stood  while my GGF was in London .The Milwards and servants escaped unharmed but things went very sour after that I am told and GGF lived in Bryn Road and other places in Swansea. I have no idea where Sarah Ann,my grandfather and the other children lived in the 1890s.
I understand that you are not permitted to do  look ups for 1911. I will , when I return to Australia,access " find my past" and subscribe.That's a very good idea.
Thank you so much for your time spent on me.I am very grateful.
Respectfully,
phipps

[ambers]

What an interesting family you have.

It wouldn't be unusual for someone to say that they were a Widower after a long period of separation.

Did your Thomas have a middle initial of T?

Ambers

[phipps1]

What an interesting family you have.

It wouldn't be unusual for someone to say that they were a Widower after a long period of separation.

Did your Thomas have a middle initial of T?

Ambers

Oh ! I didn't know that Ambers, so thank you.
Yes,Thomas had the middle name "Talbot" but this is not a given name by his parents ,nor was he baptised with that name,nor do any legal documents I have ever seen have that name upon  them. It  seems it only raised its head at the time of Lily marrying him,but it could have been used earlier by him. Thomas's British Passport in 1905 also has no mention of that name so I think it must be an informal one.
Thank you so much for that question and the explanation.Is that,(widower), also a custom that exists today do you think ?
A neice of Lily's told me some years ago that she was Catholic and he was nominal C of E, and that she insisted he take a "baptism name" so he chose "Talbot" or she chose it. The neice also told me that Lily would only call him by that name- " Talbot".
Respectfully,
phipps

[Morganllan]

I have just noticed the number of the house...No 39 St Helens Road.

1901
Thomas Milward/49/Widower/Civil Engineer, Glamorgan
Edna V Propeyshir /23/widow/ Lady Keeper (that's odd) Somerset, Bristol
Louie Jones//26/ Servant/ Swansea.

As there is a Servant, I am not sure of Edna's status in his  home.

It's 37 St Helen's Road, and Edna was Single, a Visitor, Lady Help? Dom, Worker, born Bristol

RG13 Piece 5075 Folio 86 Page 26

[Morganllan]

In 1891,I think GGF was already estranged from his wife.She got a separation order in C 1892 .

1891 Census  Clinel? Tower, Christchurch Rd, East Cliff, Bournemouth

Thomas Milward  Head age 46 Civil Engineer born Cardiff
Sarah A Milward  Wife age 47 born Fishguard
Frank S Milward Son age 18 Medical Student  born Swansea
Mabel C Milward Dau age 15 Scholar  born Swansea
Christine M Milward Dau age 14 Scholar   born Swansea
Sidney A Milward Son age 11 Scholar   born Swansea
Thomas H Milward Son age 11 Scholar   born Swansea
Stafford HR Milward age 4   born Swansea

plus
Ebenezer and Alice Parker Visitors from Birmingham
Eliza MacMillan age 40 Servant Cook
Matilda Millard  age 16 Housemaid

RG12 Piece 903 Folio 62 Page 13


I assume you have them in 1881 at 3 Norton Cross, Oystermouth Parish?
RG11 Piece 5367 Folio 30 Page 26

[phipps1]

Hi morgan,Now that is a revelation.Just goes to show one,doesn't it !
Yes,I have the 1881 census for Norton Lodge.
Thank you for this information.I will have to do a rethink now.
Kind regards,
phipps

[lizholt]

Hi Phipps

You ask about
'2. Messrs Roberts & Son.,- valued my GGFs motor car in 1921 for Estate purposes, a 4 seater Renault.
I believe that this may have been my G Grandfather's company, Ivor L Roberts. He had a large car and motorcycle salesroom in Oxford Street, Swansea, and was a dealer for Renault cars in the '20s and '30s.
Sadly his son, also Ivor, was killed in Singapore during the second world war. I'm not sure when the business closed, but it was certainly still going in the '50s when my parents met, although it had moved premises, to Mansel Street, by then.

Regards

lizholt

[phipps1]

Hi Phipps

You ask about
'2. Messrs Roberts & Son.,- valued my GGFs motor car in 1921 for Estate purposes, a 4 seater Renault.
I believe that this may have been my G Grandfather's company, Ivor L Roberts. He had a large car and motorcycle salesroom in Oxford Street, Swansea, and was a dealer for Renault cars in the '20s and '30s.
Sadly his son, also Ivor, was killed in Singapore during the second world war. I'm not sure when the business closed, but it was certainly still going in the '50s when my parents met, although it had moved premises, to Mansel Street, by then.

Regards

lizholt

Hi lizholt, Thank you so much for that information.That gives me a new focus and I appreciate your time and kindness.
Kind regards,
phipps