John Montague born circa 1827 Woolwich Kent

[debandbill]

I have recently returned to researching family history after a break and am seeking information on a John Montague- who was transported to Western Australia for larceny in 1852..

I posted here several years ago and received some wonderful assistance from several members so thought I might ask again for assistance. In the 1851 census John Montague was awaiting transportation in Millbank Prison and on the census record it indicates his place of birth as being Leith in Scotland. This really surprised me - but I have pursued it without many leads.

Recently a link up with someone on the internet has revealed a different scenario- which I have not been able to substantiate as yet. He is suggesting that John is the son of Henry and Mary Montague - and was born in Woolwich in Kent in 1827.

Any information on this family that can be accessed will be greatly appreciated as I would like to determine which lead is the correct one.

To add to the confusion - this ancestor used a few aliases - so I would not put be surprised if he "spun a yarn "to the census takers- if that was a possibility.

I have gained access to the records posted for the Central Law Courts for his two convictions - but they give no personal details such as address or parents.  His court cases were 4/3/1850 and 7/4/1851 - after which he was transported to Australia - arriving 1/8/1852.

Any information of suggestions will be appreciated.

Regards

Debbie

[nanny jan]

Hi,

Found Henry and Mary Montague with son John.

1841   John is shown as born 1833, Henry is a fishmonger and the family are at Richard Street, Woolwich, Greenwich.

HO 107  492  2/40  30

1851   John is shown as born 1832, is married to Eliza, and a fishmonger at the same address with Henry and Mary.

HO107   1589  130   33



Nanny Jan

[debandbill]

Thanks very much for that one nanny jan- although I am wondering if it is possible that there were any others - as 1833 seems a bit late as that would mean that he was only 19 when he was convicted- and he is listed as 23/24.

Does the census record list any other children within the home? I am told that he had 4 siblings - and they are widely spread in ages. If these ages are correct then several of them would probably not have been living at home in the 1841 census. The siblings are Henry b 1816, Johanna b 1821, Elizabeth b 1826 and Ellen b 1836

Are you able to check for the presence of the  younger siblings in the census please?

Debbie

[nanny jan]

The family I found has Rebecca (22),  David (19) and Jane (16);   not your Montagues.   



Nanny Jan

[debandbill]

Thank you very much for looking

Are there any others listed in Woolwich in the 1841 census?

Debbie

[nanny jan]

This is more likely:

1841 Wyndham Street, St Marylebone

Henry (50), Mary (50) with Henry (25), Johanna (20), Elizabeth (15), John (10),  Martha (5) and Ellen (5).

All shown born Middlesex.          Henry snr. shown as Parish Officer and Henry jnr. as upholsterer.


Nanny Jan

[nanny jan]

Hi,

The John shown with Henry and Mary in Woolwich is the only one born in Kent with parents Henry and Mary;  only the county was shown as Y or N for birthplace on 1841 census.



Nanny Jan

[nanny jan]

1851 census for the Montagues in St. Marylebone:


H Montague (64), widower, b. Hertfordshire, Elizabeth (22) b. Dorset,  John (22) b.  Marylebone and Ellen (17) b. Marylebone

Living in John Street, Marylebone

HO107   1489    12    16



Nanny Jan

[debandbill]

Thank you very much for checking out that information for me - it just confirms that the information that I have been told by this person is incorrect. Nothing ties in - the second family that  you found seem to be the one that he is referring to as the siblings are all as named- but the birth locations don't match. Most importantly - that family's John is still with them- yet I know that hee was in Newgate prison as he is listed on the census there with his partner in crime.

This person will be very disappointed as they thought they had traced this family back to the mid 1700s- but better to know rather than persuing someone elses family.

Thanks again- I well continue in my search for his family as it appears that he came from Leith in Scotland- but I have no idea how long he was in London before his first offence - or whether he came by himself or with family.

Regards Debbie