Grandad - Scots Guard - help needed

[DPT]

My Grandad served in the Scots Guards during WWII, Lance Sgt Robert 'Bertie' Todd, number: 2698817. He was with 3rd Battalion Scots Guards and also 'X5 List.' I have just come into possesion of his Military Records via the Scots Guards archivist.

I have a few queries which any help would be greatly appreciated!

1. He was deployed to NWE on 19th July 1944 - no details of his movements or action he may have seen are available - where could I obtain such info?
2. He came back to the UK on 1st Jan 1945 'to proceed on a course of instruction' - the military records show him as X5 List at this point - what does this mean?
3. He then returned to NWE on 16.2.1945 - he was then promoted to Lance Sergeant on 22.2.1945 - again no information on where he was or what he was doing - any info I could get on 3rd Battalion movements at this time would be fantastic
4. He was reported missing on 14.5.1945, then subsequently confirmed as a POW - no details of prison camp available - any ideas where I can obtain this information?


Hope this is not asking too much?

[t mo]

hi
looked up the pow records and can,t find him in there in fact no records for the name todd show at all .
trevor

[Buzancy18]

Look up Guards Armoured Division.
 3rd SG were in 6th Brigade of the Division and were in battles of -
Bourgebus Ridge ,
 Mont Picon,
 Nederrijn,
Rhineland


Buzancy18

[macintosh]

DBT,
X5 List  is the reference that a serving member of a unit in WW2 has left his unit for the purpose of training or instruction as a student for more than 28 days, so your grandfather may have been sent to UK for military training possibly a tank driver as part of the Guards Armoured or even something like a Cadre Course for his promotion to L/Sgt.

James

The 3rd. Battalion War Diaries should be available for scrutiny at Birdcage Walk re their movements in NWE

[DPT]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

The records say he was a POW for 26 days, from 14.4.45 to 9.5.45. The next entry says "Rejoined (Escaped POW)" so he definitely was captured. It's frustrating to say the least that there are no apparent records of him being held?

The military record shows he was stationed at Codford in Wiltshire  in Jan to Feb 1942 and there are 2 interesting entries for some misdemeanours.

"Forfeits 7 days pay on for Waas? being involved in an accident  & causing damage to a W.D Vehicle No: 4446012" - Does anyone know what the 'Waas' abbreviation could mean, the wording is illegible so the spelling could be incorrect. Either Waas or Wsas or Woas? No idea what it means?

There's also another misdemeanour where the 'Waas' word/abbreviation is used again:

"Awarded 10 days C.B for Waas on missed Wireless training at 9:00 hrs"

Any one shed any light here ata all?

Thanks again

[OVERLORD]

Hello,
          I have only just read your mail. You might try viewing ww2talk and the scots guards forum under here.
Have a look also at 6th guards tank brigade website on google.....some good photos.
Required reading: Patrick Forbes, 6th Guards tank brigade. Ian Daglish, Bluecoat 'over the battlefield'.
There wewre two Todd's in the 3rd battalion at that time; Squadron Sgt Major John Todd.....S Squadron and your grandfather.
I will ask my Father if he remembers your grandfather.
My father was in the Scots Guards from 1942-47.
3rd Battalion from 1942-June 1945, 1st battalion thereafter.

Write to the Scots Guards adjutant at Wellington barracks. Explain who you are and request a visit to their archives....you might get to see pictures of your grandfather.

Visit the Imperial War Museum in Austral street ( an Annex) behind the main museum, they have aural, pictoral and film records of the Scots Guards and the 6th Guards tank brigade.

If my father remembers your grandfather, I will post a message to you.

Rgds,

EF.

[Ravenswood]

Woas = Whilst on Active Service.

[OVERLORD]

3rd Battalion Scots Guards.

June 1944...Kent. change of gun from 6 pounder to 75mm. Test firing out into channel near Shornecliffe barracks.

Mid July near Portsmouth/Gosport.
Departed Gospaort 'hards'.
Landed Normandy. S Squadron arriving a day later. Travelled to fields near Bayeux (Esquay).
Move late 28th July to Martiniere and area...approx. 3 miles north Caumont.
Moved overnight 29th to just north of Caumont L'evente.
Operation Bluecoat 30th July.
Hill 226 (Now hill/cote 234). Les Loges.
St Martin de Besaces.
Le Tourneur.
'Mortar' Gulch...as it was know....area where Le tourner road meets the Villers Bocage/Vire road.
Arclais.
Montcharival/Montchauvet.
Estry.
Pressles.
Le Bas Perrier.
Chenendolle.
Then towards Vassy, but squeezed out of line.....decreasing pocket of Falaise.

More to follow.

EF

[Drew5233]

Here are the refs for the 3 Scots Guards war diaries at the National Archives. Give me a shout if you'd like any copying. I have a nice 3 SG file written by one of the officers as well that contains some really nice sketch maps showing the Bns movement's through Europe and I have a copy of the Scots Guards Missing Men file covering NW Europe that may mention your man when he was captured.

WO 166/4108 3 Scots Guards 1940 Oct-1941 Dec
WO 166/8579 3 Scots Guards 1942 Jan-Dec
WO 166/12470 3 Scots Guards 1943 Jan, Mar-Dec
WO 171/1258 3 Scots Guards (Tank Battalion) 1944 Jan-Dec
WO 171/5150 3 Scots Guards 1945 Jan-Dec

Cheers
Andy

Ps I copied the Guards stuff that's on WW2Talk