what exactely is an idiot?!

[busylizzie123]

I have read imbercile (idiot) a couple of times on the census of my ancestors...rather upsetting especially when it's next to someone with your exact name!!  I remember as a child a few children around that had problems and we called them all sorts of sorts names   terrible I know

[Redroger]

my mum always says your grandads the way he is coz he's not the sharpest tool in the shed! i love my grandad but he can be a very very harsh and rude man, and my mum always said he is like that because he never understands that its wrong to be that rude about people!

We still don't fully realise that there are two components in education and development, nature and nurture. Little can be currently done about nature, but nurture can be used to develop a person to the extent that in the example below a boy who was slow at primary school developed to the extent where he obtained a first class honours degree at Oxford University. His development was nurtured by the fact that his father was a multi millionaire stockbroker who was able to buy his son a privileged education at Eton. If only such avenues were available to all we should have very many less people who are deprived of achieving their full potential.

[stanmapstone]

From the 1911 Census Report.
"Previous to 1901 a return was asked of persons who were "lunatic," "imbecile," or "idiot," but in 1901, since it had been represented that the term "idiot." was considered to be somewhat opprobrious and therefore liable to lead to the concealment of the truth, it was omitted, and the term imbecile being used to include all the major degrees of congenital mental defect. At the same time the term feeble-minded was introduced for the first time in order to cover the minor degrees of this condition, to which a considerable amount of public attention had been directed." http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bva/

Stan

[Redroger]

Regarding "feeble minded people" I knew a family where the wife who was highly intelligent had married a man who was feeble minded, they had two daughters, one bright and normal, the other extremely slow witted. The father despite his mental slowness was an absolutely brilliant gardener, he could bud a plant and make it grow where no-one else could. If a plant propagated by him didn't take, then it was certainly dead. Everyone has some talent in them somewhere. We do wrong to deprive any person of developing their full potential.

[rachelralph]

very true redroger. it has to be said that my grandfather is a man to admire in some ways. his mother left home when he was only 12ish and the father had to work. my grandfather brought up all the children, and there were many of them! he stayed at home, didnt really attend school as such and then at an age when the children could look after themselves he then went to work himself. maybe if he had the opportunity to learn he may not be the way he is today. again i have to say that i love my grandfather very much but he has a very blunt way of saying things and doing things that can get on people nerves more than a little. he is very narrow minded and more than a little racist.
in fact the idea that a great uncle of his was considered an idiot will not sit well with him, and in fact he will deny all relation to him at all.

[Redroger]

There are some similarities to the case of my own father, who was orphaned at the age of 2, brought up on a farm by his aunt and uncle. Gained a scholarship to the local Grammar school at the age of 10, but was taken out of school at 12, and put to farm service. Volunteered for WW1 at the age of 15 "because he was bored". survived (obviously) married late, and had me and my brother when in his forties.Had worked as a railway engineman from leaving the army to retirement. I passed the 11 +, my brother didn't for some reason, I worked on the railway and he in the police, however the latent potential showed in the next generation, his granchildren, all of whom went to university, from comprehensive schools incidentally, the 5 of them gaining at least 8 degrees between, including one double first and subsequent Phd from Oxford, not the guy I mentioned in my previous posting though they were contemporaries. The nature is there, and given the opportunity can flourish as in this case. My great fear is the opportunity will now be increasingly limited to those who can afford to send their children to Eton etc.

[busylizzie123]

Well said everyone, we all have a place in society,,, a part to play in life, does worry me though when opportunity can be limited to whether you can buy a education these days..............my dad's story is similar came from farming and through the war years improved his status to engineer and we all received a good education just because he wanted us to show our potential  ,,, we did

[stevecw]

For what it's worth, I was always under the impression that an idiot and imbecile were born that way from day one and always to remain so
whereas Lunacy appeared later in life in a previously "normal" person therefore turning them Lunatic.

stevecw

[stanmapstone]

When an idiot or imbecile occurs in a family, the ordinary medical attendant is generally the first consulted. Perhaps he is already aware of the nature of the case, having attended the child from infancy,
On the Diagnosis and Prognosis of Idiocy and Imbecility
http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~mksimpso/IreDiag.htm

Stan