Searching Lydia Lee/Place likely a Gypsy

[dplace]

Does anyone know about a woman by the name of Lydia Lee who married James Place of Walmer Road in Kensington about 1910.  She was very likely a Gypsy.  She was charged with drunkiness and her children were place in homes in Dartford and Whitstable Kent for wandering.  Her children were Robert James, William and Thomas and Lydia who died at sea on her way to Canada.  She was my grandmother and despite searching for many years I have not been able to find her birth records.  The family records are in St. Francis of Assisi RC Church on Pottery Lane Kensington. I have collected everything they have but it gives me no useful information about her family.

Dave Place
Canada

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[Sharon01]

Hi,

Lydia Lee married James Place in 1900, Kensington (vol 1a 370).

The best thing would to order the cert.

In 1901 they seem to be living in Hammersmith. Her place of birth is Deptford (c1882). They have a daughter Annie J Place 2 months.

RG13/ 44/35/61

Sharon

[nanny jan]

Hi,


Found this possible birth registration on FreeBMD:


Lydia Lee    SeptQ 1883    Greenwich   1d    942         


Deptford is in the Greenwich registration area.



Nanny Jan

[Sharon01]

Nanny Jan,

I found that one too & I think that it is probably her.

Sharon

[dplace]

Thanks everyone.  It has been a long time since I was on this board and I forgot how to post so it would be shown on the main board and not just to the person who wrote.  Indeed you have found the right person but it was about 2 o'clock A.M. when I wrote this and I should have said it was the death certificate I couldn't find.  I have the birth certificate and indeed Deptford is the area I looked at some time ago.  Her parents might be the people I found but the documents wern't there to be totally sure.  I am not that concerned about going too far in that direction but I really want to find her death records and both my cousin in England and I treid to do this without success.  I assume from her lifestyle that she might have died unknown.  She lost her children under court order of Westminister Court 21.7,1916 for my father and 28,7,1916 for his brothers.  There never was any record for his sister Lydia and I lost track of her till she died at sea in 1919 abord the RMS Tunisian. I have tried find what home she was sent to without success. I am presently having Westmister Court search their files. Can anyone help me with the death information. I think she migh have been alive up to about 1960 and might have remarried but I can't prove any of this.

[kinsey5156]

Dave I have just seen your post. This is what we have on Lydia so far.

There is a Marriage Index record for James Place and Lydia Lee in Kensington, London, in the third quarter of 1900 at 1a 370. (20080315-1825GDK)

There is a Birth Index reference for Annie Josephine Place in Kensington London for the first quarter of 1901, (1a 105). (20080315-1829GDK)

At the time of the 1901 Census, James Place (20) was living in one room at 3 Mersey Street, Hammersmith, London with his family. He is described as a 'Carpet cleaner/upholsterer' and his birthplace is given as London, Kensington. James' wife is Lydia Place (19) born in London, Deptford. They have one child, Annie J (4 months) born in London, Kensington. There are two other families living at the same address, one in three rooms, the other in two. Found at RG13 44 Folio 35 Page 61, Schedule 390.(20080611-1407GDK)

There is a Death Index reference for Annie Josephine Place (1) in Fulham London for the third quarter of 1902, (1a 136). (20080315-1843GDK)

There is a Birth Index reference for Lydia Place in Kensington London for the fourth quarter of 1903, (1a 120). (20080315-1832GDK)

There is a Birth Index reference for Robert James Place in Kensington London for the first quarter of 1906, (1a 104). (20080315-1846GDK)

There is a Birth Index reference for John Thomas Place in Kensington London for the second quarter of 1910, (1a 150). (20080315-1850GDK)

At the time of the 1911 Census, the Place family was living in one room at 10 Talbot Mews, Kensington, London. James Place (29) is described as a 'Labourer Guard' and his birthplace is given as London. His wife is Lydia Place (29) born in London. She is recorded as having been married for 11 years, and having given birth to five children, 4 of whom are still living. These four are all living with them: Lydia (; James (6); William (4); Thomas (1). No place of birth is recorded for the children. Found at (RG14PN151 RG78PN5 RD2 SD2 ED12 SN317). (20090219-1653GDK)

[Sharon01]

Now this is a long shot.

A Lydia Place married James E Maxwell in 1928, Manchester, Lancashire

A Lydia Maxwell dies in 1958 in Oldham, Lancashire aged 71 (birth date 1887) a few years out though but who knows.

Sharon

[dplace]

Thanks Sue.  That is what is in my Family Tree Maker so I was hoping somebody might have the death information.  I still think she was an unclaimed body but of course I have no proof of that.  The post from the Travelling People did spark me to get Brian to see about the stick on nose and perhaps my friend in the clown fraternity can get a picture of his makeup so I can see if it matches.  That might help with the Paulo part of William Paulo Place.  Other than that, I still am waiting for the DNA from Teesdale and Malcolm Place to see if that goes anywhere.  I guess the marriage information on Lydia Maxwell might be a very off chance since we were told she was alive in the late 50s.   I have the documents on most of what you have posted for you to see when you come in the summer plus a few things where Lydia has used Simmons as a last name.  I hope to have the court documents within a few weeks to prove her name and more about her in 1917, and I hope by then to have a lot more DNA evidence to share as well.
Thanks Sharoa01 for the info.  I guess if she didn't know her birthdate, as my father didn't know his, she could have put the 1887 date in.  Women don't usually add years however

Thanks cousin