Author Topic: tn17's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In  (Read 21201 times)

Offline toni*

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Re: tn17's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #36 on: Tuesday 08 February 11 21:28 GMT (UK) »
ok this is a way away but i cannot find another richard Burgess at the moment with a wife lydia

there is a possible marriage that needs following up here

Marriages Dec 1847   Stone    17   259
Austin    Thomas           
BUCKLEY    Lydia          
BURGESS    Richard
          
DAVENHILL    Sarah        
NORRIS    John Stacey        
STUBBS    Mary Ann       
TILDESLEY    Catherine        
Wagg    Richard       
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline toni*

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Re: tn17's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #37 on: Tuesday 08 February 11 21:29 GMT (UK) »
see in 1861 Lydia adult is spelt as such and Lydia child is spelt lidia ............. why the difference in spelling ?
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline toni*

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Re: tn17's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #38 on: Tuesday 08 February 11 21:35 GMT (UK) »
the answer must be staring us int he face

1858 Ann Mary Burgess is born her birth cert gives her father as Richard Burgess and her mother as Letitia Barrett

she appears on the 1861 census with father Richard Burgess and mother Lydia
ditto 1871 and the 1881 census now married to Frederick Ashby but still with her mother  who by now is Lettia [sic]

there is a marriage between Richard Burgess & Letitia Forbes in the right area in 1843  or there is a possible marriage between Richard Burgess and Lydia Buckley some miles away (not confirmed Richard m. Lydia Buckley)

Ann Mary had an elder brother Richard born circa 1842 - this however would be pre marriage of Letitia Forbes and Richard Burgess

but it would seem Lydia and Richard were together in 1841

argh how does the barrett name fit ?

Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline tn17

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Re: tn17's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #39 on: Wednesday 09 February 11 06:29 GMT (UK) »
I also get the feeling that the answer is staring us in the face.

I've been searching for possible other Letitias and Lydias (both Forbes and Barrett) on the 1841. Not much luck:
* There's a Letitia Barrett who married Robert Rudd in 1839. However, she's still with him and the family in Friston, Suffolk 1851
* There's a Lydia Forbes, who appears to be married to James Forbes, in St Pancras in the 1841 (HO107 686 15 19 32) but who I can't find in the 1851. However, I also found a marriage beween James Forbes and Lydia Newman (bach/spin) in the 1830s.
* I also can't trace either Gray St or Errand St Bethnal Green on either the 1841 or 1851
* I did find a Richard and Fanny Burgess living together in Sundridge, Kent, on the 1841. However, Fanny is still alive in 1851, living with her daughter and son in law, which makes me think this may not be the one that relates to the 1851 widowed Richard.



Offline tn17

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Re: tn17's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #40 on: Wednesday 09 February 11 06:39 GMT (UK) »
I've also had a little look for John Barrett from the 1841, but with no success  :-\

Offline Eleesavet

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Re: tn17's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #41 on: Wednesday 09 February 11 08:24 GMT (UK) »
I've also had a little look for John Barrett from the 1841, but with no success  :-\

On FamilySearch (old site) there is a Letitia Barrett christened 6 July 1834, Maidstone, Kent, parents: John Barrett and Sarah Barrett.  Could this John be the John you are looking for?

Debs posted details of an 1841 census which included a John Barrett age 30 on the related thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,508460.0.html.

Liz


Perthshire: MacArthur, Whittet, Mill (Milne), Alexander, Shaw, Pearson, Henderson, Rennie, Comrie, Braid, Ritchie, Roy, MacKillop, Keill, Cumming, Taylor, Marshall, Young, Miller, MacVicar, Murray, Cameron, Croll, Christie, Gloag, Gorrie, Stobbie, Lunnan, Thomson, Crerar, Hepburn.
Dundee: Mill (Milne).
Aberdeen: Mill (Milne).
Skye: MacIntosh, Stewart, MacQueen, Matheson, Morrison, Nicholson, MacLeod, Finlayson.
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Offline toni*

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Re: tn17's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #42 on: Wednesday 09 February 11 10:13 GMT (UK) »
That’s a good find Liz – something to bear in mind


I was wondering what if they [Richard & Lydia] didn’t marry ? maybe they didn’t have the funds or she was already pregnant (oh the shame!) or that they weren’t free to marry – living with someone in sin for 6 months would back then have classed them as common law husband or wife so thus no need to marry. They didn’t live where they were born so who would know if they were actually married or not?

Saying that

Who else married at the same time could the registrar have copied the name from the previous marriage? Ditto on Ann Mary Burgess birth cert.

Sorry – who was letitia father on marriage again?

we can assume that Richards father is Richard as he signs himself Richard Burgess Junior.

Are we absolutely sure that Lydia from 1841 is Lydia from 1851 ? Richards birth cert might yield some clues.

Re the children if they didn’t marry would he births be registered as Barrett or Forbes (can still see no christenings)

I have tried forgetting everything and starting from scratch with Ann Mary BUT I can’t! lol it still comes down to the fact you have her birth cert from 1858 with her parents as Richard Burgess (what was his occupation?) and Letitia Barrett.
And then 1841 census must be them with the frequency of names
It still is entirely possible that they had married previously and forgot to tell the registrar. (whoops)
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchive

Offline tn17

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Re: tn17's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #43 on: Wednesday 09 February 11 10:35 GMT (UK) »
I agree - good spotting Liz.

Re the marriage, letitia's father is listed as Thomas Forbes, occupation carman (?). Hadn't thought of the possibility that Forbes had been written down from the previous entry - I'll check!

Also, John's birth cert also lists Letitia's maiden name as Barrett.

I wonder if it's worth looking for Letitia Forbes's death between 1843 and 1851. That would fit in with the theory that the 1843 marriage isn't them and that there's a good reason why there aren't two Richard/Letitia couples on all the censuses.

Offline tn17

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Re: tn17's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #44 on: Wednesday 09 February 11 10:39 GMT (UK) »

I have tried forgetting everything and starting from scratch with Ann Mary BUT I can’t! lol it still comes down to the fact you have her birth cert from 1858 with her parents as Richard Burgess (what was his occupation?) and Letitia Barrett.
And then 1841 census must be them with the frequency of names
It still is entirely possible that they had married previously and forgot to tell the registrar. (whoops)


Richard Jnr was a leather dealer from 1861 on, kept a beer shop in 1851 and is a paper stainer on the 1841 and the 1843 marriage