George GOODMAN

[bgoodman]

Yes, 1783Caz I am aware of those etchings and took some photos some years ago. Like you I was completely fascinated by the whole workhouse thing. There was an old oak tree which was over a hundred years old in that courtyard. It has fairly recently died and was taken away. The inmates use to exercise around it and I was quite sad to see it go. Amazing you managed to find a Gristwood among those etchings. The Hertford Archives should have some details of burials even if there is no longer anything to mark the site. I looked up the Rickmansworth union burial board and found my great grand father George Goodman and his daughter. I expect Watford union has its own burial board although I believe that they came under the same umbrella. I asked once if the workhouse deaths would also come under this board and I was told that they would. Even if you ring up Hertford local history/studies section they will let you know what they do have. I have recently read a book from the popular midwife series called Shadows of the Workhouse. This was interesting as it gives some insight into how the workhouse operated as it remained unchanged in its practise for many years. I wonder also as your ancestors may have moved into another area from Wiltshire would there be settlement information/paperwork at Hertford.

[1783caz]

i have to say you realy do know your stuff ...i shall contact the ones youve mentioned ...

[bgoodman]

Hi 1783Caz I only wish I did know a bit more but thank you for your comment. I mentioned those other Goodman guys such as Gabriel and Godfrey as later on when you discover more about the watford union workhouse there may or may not be some connection there. I thought I read somewhere that a Godfrey Goodman was invited to be the chaplin at the workhouse. Not sure if that Godfrey guy was an ancestor of those two also. It seems a coincidence to have the same name and also the same leaning towards religion. When I looked up the parish records on the national archives I put in a search as follows. I put "rickmansworth parish records" 1653-1974. When I put the inverted commas around the search term I seemed to get somewhere. The result was Hertfordshire Archives DP85. I clicked on that, then on incumbent then on service of the church. At the bottom of that section block I got register of burials (off.Acc546) D85/1/50 1886-1925. I then got help to order the details on line as I had the death cert by then. You may want different years etc. There are other stuff there that may be useful to you also.

[bgoodman]

I decided to take the bull by the horns and order that 1894 death cert for Catherine Goodman, Watford. It may or may not be the daughter of George Goodman my ggrandfather. Although I know that his daughter's name was Mary Katherine born July 1879 at Batchworth, Rickmansworth, not Ireland. I am however hoping that the address on the cert confirms some connection with St Catherine's R/C school at 60 Queen's Road Watford. What with George junior staying at the boys home perhaps Mary K also got put into a R/C home/school. Of course it is probable that there could be a R/C Catherine Goodman from Ireland staying there and Mary K may not have been placed there at all. At least with George Junior at 58 Queen's road it actually stated born in Rickmansworth which made it more probable.
It may be helpful for some rootschat folk to know that not only has the Registration office moved from Clarendon Road Watford but you are also now unable to obtain archive certs on site. I obtained a form from Watford Registry office based near to the Town Hall and sent it to Hatfield with a cheque. There are other options to order it online or by phone and credit card. The DNA of my kind male Goodman volunteer has now reached USA, lets hope it bears some fruit.
1783 Caz it appears likely that James Goodman born approx 1801 who married in 1826 and who died aged 78, Watford 3a 265 (Freebmd) are one and the same. He was in the workhouse in 1871 as you probably know. At Hafield Archives he may come under Watford or even Rickmansworth Union Burial Board as he came from Rickmansworth. When I had the burial info for George Senior I then contacted Rickmansworth Council re the cemetrey plot info and they were extremely helpful. I expect you would get similar help from Watford.

[Maddie]

Hi

Good luck with the cert you have ordered for Catherine, it does look as if it could be your George's sister. Just had another look at the 1891 census & 64 Queens Road is the Catholic School were Catherine is staying. It does appear that 58 Queens Road was the boys school & 64 the girls.

I noticed that there is a Harrington boy born Africa with George at 58 & a Harrington girl born Africa with Catherine at 64, they must be brother & sister. !!

Maddie

[bgoodman]

Thank you for that Maddie and sorry but I did get my numbers mixed up re Queen's road. It is good of you to check that info out for me as I would not have noticed the African children's similar surnames etc. Also I meant to say Hertford not Hatfield re archives.

[jtas]

hi,

I am glad i just read your last message as i was planning to go to the registry office to get some certificates, i had no idea that it had been moved. I hope you do have some success with katherines certificate. I wonder if his wife had returned to Ireland  with just hubert for a reason, and do you know when they actually went, was it after George had died?

Regards

Jackie

[Maddie]

Hi

I'm happy to help with any info that might be useful for you, only wish I could do more.

Jackie, that's a good question re when Mary & Hubert returned to Ireland, I was going to ask that myself. I found them both very easily on the Irish 1911 but had no luck on the 1901, either Ireland or UK.

Maddie

[bgoodman]

Thank you Jackie and Maddie and I must say I am quite touched by your kindness in trying to help me. Unfortunately I am not aware of when Mary Goodman (nee McCarthy) went back to Ireland. It appears that Hubert, my grand father, started his army career at approx aged 18 in 1901. In his list of campaigns it states home August 1901-1902 then he appears to have gone to South Africa. Not sure if home meant in England or in Ireland. Under next akin it lists mother at Dillon Street Clonmel and elder brother George in London. Although underneath it also mentions wife's details. The writing re details of next akin looks similar which may suggest these details were written in retrospect. Hubert didn't marry until 1911, after the 1911 census. In the Ireland 1901 Census the only Goodman family that appeared for Clonmel were living with a John Winchester at Mitchell Street Clonmel. He was a hotel Proprietor from Scotland, a Presbyterian. Strangely, re religious beliefs, he had two Goodman nieces living with him a Lizzie and a Susan one a Presbyterian and one a R/C. Both girls born in Cork City. Not sure if those census details were correct or not. I did search for George junior in London in either 1901 or 1911 and found one with his 1881 birth year working as a hotel porter, born in Ireland, not Rickmansworth! In 1923 June there was a George Goodman aged 42, (my chap would be 41years, birthday July), on the Caronia Ship Port Liverpool England. He appeared to be working on the ship and he was there again in July. I also tried, without success, looking up the 1901 census for Cashel Co Tipperary as I wondered if Margaret McCarthy, mother of Mary Goodman was still in William street where she was with her grandchild Theresa Gertrude when she died there in 1888. I am amazed to see how many Goodman names were in Ireland, mainly the north, in the 1901 census 364 of them if I am interpreting it correctly.