George GOODMAN

[Maddie]

Hi

I agree with you Jackie, Elizabeth Phoebe Rivett does look like the correct wife for Thomas Winfield. Thomas is in lodgings at 193 High Street Watford on the 1891, indexed as T Winfield, he dies in 1893 which accounts for Elizabeth being a widow on the 1901. I haven't yet been able to track Elizabeth after 1901.

However, I have discovered that Elizabeth nee Rivett has a connection to the Gristwood family in Ricky......... As we know James Goodman, son of James & Ann, married Louisa Gristwood & all the Gristwood's in Ricky are related.

Elizabeth P Rivett's parents were Benjamin & Maria nee Batchelor, they married in 1862. Maria Batchelor was the daughter of Thomas & Jane nee Gristwood. Thomas & Jane married 6 March 1842 in Ricky, 2 months before Maria was christened. Jane died in 1850 & I'm not sure what happened to Thomas but their 3 children, Maria, Elizabeth & Mary Ann are with their Grandmother Ann Batchelor in 1851 in Mill End. Indexed as Bakhlor on Anc.

So, Jane Gristwood was Elizabeth Winfield nee Rivetts grandmother.

If this was the Elizabeth Winfield present at George Goodman's death is it possible that the Gristwood connection is relevant.

Added, I can't figure out who Thomas Therd?? is on the 1881 living with the Rivett's in Watford.  Any ideas........

Maddie

[bgoodman]

Wow you folks blow my mind making such connections etc and it is very good of you to put the effort in. I had another look at George's death cert it states- under when and where died- 18th March 1888 Bury Farm Rickmansworth. Therefore he may have died on the actual farm rather than in the cottage. It is also the first time that his occupation is written as Cowman opposed to Labourer, General Labourer or Agricultural Labourer. I imagined that the Elizabeth Winfield may have worked on the farm perhaps witnessing the event, if it was a sudden occurrence, although Fibroid Phthisis may have bothered him for some time. A younger Elizabeth could use words such as Cowman although that may have been all he was capable of doing near the end of his life. It also states in attendance which on the other hand may suggest an older person, rather than just saying present at death. This wording may or may not be significant. The death was registered on the day after and I wonder by whom.

[Maddie]

Hi

Don't know if all this is getting us any where but we are trying.....

Unfortunately it still is all conjecture on whom the Elizabeth Winfield was at George's death but at least with this one there is a connection to Ricky & Batchworth. Dare I say, also to the other Goodman's in Batchworth.

Trouble with our death certs, they don't have enough info on them, do they. George died of TB so was probably ill for a while which could be why Elizabeth was in attendance nursing him. Did she not register the death then............

Pity there wasn't a yearly census to have helped us keep track of these folks.

Maddie

[[Ray]]

Martha Wilkes . . . . .

Column 7 on the DC where it says Martha Wilkes.

I thought/assumed it said where Ms Goodman lived.
It's not, it is where Martha lived!?
It says so "on the tin".

Or doesn't it?

Ray

[Maddie]

Hi Ray

Yes, the death cert does say where Martha lived so George's death cert should state where the informant lived...............

Maddie

[bgoodman]

Yes you are so right Maddie and Ray re the address of Elizabeth on the death cert. Thank you for that and it makes me realize how something like that can be easily missed. That's my excuse anyhow. It therefore more or less confirms that the Elizabeth or a member of her family must have worked on the farm. She may or may not be related to the 39 year old dead (senior) George. In the 1881 census I found an Elizabeth who was 10 years old, born in Watford, living at 6, Birches Yard, Watford. She would be about 17 years in 1888. Her mother was a charwomen named Hannah, and her father was William G Winifred, a Brewers labourer. Interesting to know what Hannah's maiden name was. The other older Elizabeth Winfield that I wondered about was born in Rickmansworth and doesn't appear to be employed, occupation- labourer's wife. Her husband was a labourer in the gasworks. The address is ?Rickmansworth. I found these on the 1881 census with Findmypast. I haven't looked at the original census myself. Thank you also Ray for the info that you previously listed re the wrong doings of the Goodmans. The asleep while driving issue made me chuckle. I marvel at how you manage to obtain such details as anything I have come across was just by chance. Hopefully some of those Goodman people will at least be related to one of us Hertfordshire Goodmans. Sad to note how some of those Winfield people ended their days also.

[Maddie]

Is the address in column 7 on George's death cert Bury Farm as well as where he died. Is there no informants name on it. ??

Maddie

[bgoodman]

Yes maddie, I hadn't noticed that before, I am not doing very well am I. Under column 7 it lists Signature, description and residence of informant. Written there is Elizabeth Winfield in attendance Bury Farm Rickmansworth. Presume George still lived in the actual cottage as column 1 just states when and where died, which is written Bury Farm, Rickmansworth.

[Maddie]

Ummmm, so, as we first thought, Elizabeth Winfield is looking after George & it does seem to be at the farm.

Derrrr, still doesn't help with which actual Elizabeth it really is.

More thinking needed.......

Maddie