Marion Weir

[hume]

Hi Mary,

Thanks for that. I now see you did mention that earlier!

I think you are perhaps right we are on the wrong track with this Marion. Now looking at it, there was not a Robert and/or Helen in that Marion's children's names. Also there is the problem with the age as well. I notice there is another Marion Weir (15) in Hamilton on the 1841 census.

It did look good at first glance!

hume

[grandma]

Thanks Hume.

I think we are on the wrong track, as you say,
  they havn`t followed the naming pattern.

Just wonder how many Marion Weirs there are out there. It`s all very confusing.

Thanks again for trying to clear up this mystery.

Mary

[hume]

Hi Mary,

There are quite a few, aren't there? Weir is quite the popular name in Lanarkshire.

I did have a thought that Marion could be known under her maiden name in 1841, like her mother Helen. So we would be looking for a marriage before 1841.

There is a Marion Weir marrying an Abraham Hamilton in 1840, Hamilton. No children showing on the IGI. Trouble is, they do appear in the 1841 census together. However, it's not the first time someone has been recorded twice on a census! I'm also willing to overlook the Mary/Marion variant too.

Address: Leechlee Street, Hamilton
Abraham Hamilton, m, 20, ag. lab., b. in county
Mary Hamilton, f, 20, -, b. in county

More problems follow. I believe Marion must have died between 1841 and 1846, because there is a marriage between an Abraham Hamilton and a Margaret Forrest in 1846 Hamilton. Here they are in the 1851 census:

Address: Fairholm Gate, Hamilton
Abraham Hamilton, head, m, 31, sawier [sic], b. Hamilton
Margret [sic] Hamilton, wife, f, 31, -, b. Blantyre
Helen Hamilton, dau., f, 4, -, b. Hamilton
Ann Hamilton, dau., f, 2, -, b. Hamilton
Thomas Hamilton, son, m, 4 months, -, b. Hamilton

Just all conjecture work, Mary, and nothing at all concrete. It would be nice if there was some clues on the OPR entries though. It's a real nuisance as well there's no pre-1855 death records extant for Hamilton parish either.

hume

[grandma]

Hi Hume.

No; I didn`t realize there were so many Weirs out there. Almost as bad as looking for my Craig bunch.

I think we`ve just about exausted all the opportunities there are in looking for a connection between Marion Weir  and Helen Craig.

I`m inclined to believe that Marion Weir is a grandaughter of Helen Naismith. Helen was b Nov. 1774 which would make her 67 in 1841. Though just who her (Marion) parents are is another puzzle, perhaps a son of Helen Naismith Weir. I have looked on the OPR to no avail. It would make Helen Craig and Marion Weir cousins.

Just to confuse things, Helen Craig`s half brother is just down the street, living with, I believe, a grandmother.

Thanks once again for your help.

Mary

[BrianPurdyTX]

Hi Mary,

I don't know how much you're using to using the Scotland census records, but I find that you have to allow for "generic" ages. What I mean is that sometimes the record states a decade instead of an age. For example, an age of 20 could be anything from 20 to 29 where an age of 30 could be from 30 to 39.

So, in 1841, Marion Weir, Helen Naismith's daughter, was about 25 or 26, which certainly could have been recorded as age 20 on the census. So, it seems to me pretty clear that the Marion Weir on the 1841 census is the daughter of Helen Naismith.

In regard to that, we know that Robert Weir and Helen Naismith published marriage banns on 11 Nov 1798 in Hamilton, Lanark, Scotland.
We also know that there are birth records for:
Marion (1815)
Grace (1817)

Assuming that your birth record of 20 Nov 1774 for Helen Naismith is correct, and she was daughter of Thomas Naismith and Marion Craig, Helen would have been 43 years old when Grace was born. It is doubtful that Robert and Helen had any more children after Grace. It also seems likely that there were more siblings, maybe several (including Helen who married George Craig).

Also, the Marion Weir who married Thomas Wilson was the daughter of James Weir and Janet/Jeanette Reston. I haven't been able to verify that your marriage record for Grace is correct, either. It is possible that she was married before 1841, or was not even alive at that time. She would have been age 23.

Brian

[grandma]

Hi Brian.

Thanks for your reply..it`s early morning here and have just skimmed through all that has been written on this thread. Must study it again, a few weeks since I started it, so will go through all my papers again.

Regards ,

Mary

[grandma]

Hi Brian.

I`m trying to make sense of all this info. In other words there are 2 Marion Weir, 1. a daughter of Robert Weir and Helen Naismith and 2. a daughter of James Weir and Janet Weston.

As far as Grace Weir, b Dec 28 1817, is concerned, she was the lawfull daughter of Robert Weir and Helen Naismith.

Who the parents of the Grace Weir, who m. Alexander Thomas, Aug. 8 1854 can be questioned.

I have all the cert. taken from the OPR but unfortunatly dont give all the info. which would clear this up.

I`m still in the dark unfortunatly.

Mary

Regarding ages in the 1841 census. Enumerators rounded DOWN to the nearst 5 years

[BrianPurdyTX]

Hi Mary,

I noticed that you mentioned that enumerators rounded down to the nearest 5 years. From what I have seen, that is generally true. I have studied many census records and found that it isn't 100% true that the recorded ages are within this time frame. These may be because people lied about their age or because another family member answered for them in error. I still believe that occasionally the enumerators rounded down to the nearest 10 years.

A thought for you.. A Grace Weir married James Christie on 7 Apr 1833. I would suggest that this was Helen Naismith's daughter (I am not the only one to conclude this).

Also, I wanted to comment that in 1841 there is a Helen Weir in the census with three children: Helen, Robert, and Jean. This is probably Robert Weir's wife Helen MacKie. This is possibly (or maybe not) a record of Robert and Helen's daughter-in-law and grandchildren.

On the other hand, it's hard to imagine that someone married at age 24 (Helen Naismith) and having a children at age 41 and 43 wasn't having children from age 25. It is not unlikely to assume that births occurred every two to three years which would leave us with 5 to 7 additional children (other than Grace and Marion). It also seems likely (in that age) that some did not survive to adulthood. So, taking all that into account, there may be 2 to 5 additional children (one of them being the Helen who married George Craig). There are many marriage records for Weirs in Hamilton before 1840, and I suspect if someone wants to sift through all the families, they might find other siblings.

Brian

[grandma]

I quite agree there was possibly children born to Helen Naismith Weir between her marriage in 1798 and  her daughter Marion`s birth in 1815. So far I`ve not found any, tho I`m sure they`re out there.

The Robert Weir you mentioned, did you find him on the OPR?

It was only because of finding the census with Helen Craig, living with Helen Naismith that I started searching this family of Weir`s. Then finding a Marion Weir who m. another family member, got me going. If you have more info I`d be pleased to recieve it.

Mary