Different mother's names on marriage certificates

[Gill87]

Hello, I'm very happy to hear from you!

I have come to the conclusion that James Scullion and Margaret Scullion nee Brown were John's Aunt and Uncle. I have no proof for this what so ever however:

John Scullion marries in Ayr in 1867 to Bridget McShane/McCheyne. John's parent's, John Scullion and Rose McQuiggen are listed as deceased. I can find no trace of John in Scotland prior to this marriage. One witness to this marriage was Thomas Scullion - son of James and Margaret. It would make sense they were somehow related John and Thomas - cousins perhaps? James Scullion died on 20th April 1904 aged 78. Meaning he was born c. 1826. John was born c. 1843 so it's possible John's father and James were brothers. This would explain the presence of Thomas as a witness at his wedding. It'd be bizarre to pluck someone of no relation to you who just so happened to have the same surname to be a witness at your wedding, there must be a link.

John marries again after Bridget dies to a Hannah McMillan, his mother's name here is given as Helen. No names were given for his parents on his death cert but I'm more inclined to think his mother's name was Helen as he had a daughter named Helen with his first wife Bridget. I don't think John's parents ever came to Scotland. I think they most likely died in Ireland, maybe due to the potato famine, and he then followed his aunt and uncle overto Scotland. It seems odd though that I can find no trace of any brothers or sisters, maybe he was the first born and his parents got ill or died before having any more children.

John was my gg grandad.

Gill 

[Gill87]

Just to add

Bridget McShane/McCheyne -

b. c. 1848 Co Down, Ireland
m. 29th Nov 1868, Ayr
d. 2nd Sept 1890, Ayr

Parents - Catherine McCoy and John McShane/McCheyne m. 1846 Co Down, Ireland
They came to Scotland with their children between 1855 and 1856

Hannah McMillan -

b. c. 1859, Ayr
m. 23rd Nov 1890, Ayr
d. 18th Dec 1895, Ayr

Hannah had a 5yr old illigitimate child when she married John - Samuel McMillan b. 21st Dec 1886, Ayr. Samuel died in service in WW1.


                                       

[scully]

Hi Gill87,
The name John also appears in Jame,s children , He had a John born 4/10/1859 and died 27/3/1860, he then named another son John born 15/2/1869 who died 25/9/1931. do you have the address of where John was living when he got married in 1867. Thomas got married on the 2/12/1867, at Elbe Street, St Quivox. He was living at 22, Wallace Street, Ayr.

Scully

[Gill87]

Hi,

Yes, I noticed that John. My John also had a son called John born 1876 in Ayr and died in 1934 in Holmston Rd, Ayr.

John was living at George St when he married Bridget, when he married Hannah he was living at 99 Cross St. I believe that John and Bridget moved from George St to Cross St following the death of their first 2 sons, so between 1870 and 1873.

In 1881 John and Bridget are on the census living next door to James at 79 Wallace St, 10 years later, now married to Hannah he's back at Cross St.

I notice that James remarried following Margaret's death, to an Agnes. What relation are James and Margaret to you?

[scully]

Hi Gill87,
James & Margaret were my G G Grandparents. Their daughter Elizabeth Scullion married my G granddad William John Young from County Down. He had a son John Scullion Young married to Marion Wood Hendrie who had my mother Margaret Brown Hendrie Young. I noticed Thomas was a witness at his sisters wedding on 9/9/1867 with a Margaret Dinning. Who were the witnessess on John,s marriage,s.  The witnessess to Thomas,s wedding were a Bernard Higgins & i think it was a Harriet Higgins.

Scully

[Gill87]

Scully, hi.

Yes, the witnesses to John's first marriage to Bridget were Thomas Scullion and Margaret Dinning.

For his second marriage to Hannah the witnesses were S. Mc Millan and Margaret Mc Millan - presumably relations to Hannah as her maiden name was Mc Millan.

So who was Margaret Dinning...? Intruiging.

Gill

[scully]

Hi Gill8
When my  G Grandmother Elizabeth Scullion married William John Young on 7/1/1868 the witnessess were a John Mackin & Sarah Dining. I,m hoping the 1911 census might tell us exactly where Thomas was born in Ireland. I think James & Margaret came to Scotland after Thomas was born about 1845, His sister Mary was born about 1848 in Ayr. It,s certainly hard work trying to find out  when they originally came from Ireland.

Scully

[scully]

Hi Gill87
Could you tell me how many children John had and what thier names were. James and Margaret had 11 children and i was wondering if many of their names were the same. I was checking some deaths on SP today and found another child for James and Margaret, I also found the death of 2 John,s One died in 1870 and the other died in 1873 at George st,  Parents were John Scullion & Elisabeth McShane.

Scully   

[Gill87]

Hi Scully,

I came across two death entries where the parents were listed as John Scullion and Bridget McShane. When cross maching the deaths with birth certificates I was able to be sure that the deceased were children to John and Bridget. I'm unsure as to why she is listed as Elizabeth. She is not referred to as this anywhere else that I have come across.

As far as I am aware Bridget and John had the following children:

James Scullion b. 26th April 1868 George St, Ayr. Parents John and Bridget Scullion nee McShane.
James Scullion b. 17th July 1870 George St, Ayr. Parents John and Bridget Scullion nee McShane.
Helen Scullion b. 1873
John Scullion b. 1876
Patrick Scullion b. 1881
Mary Scullion b. 1884 (This is my G Grandma)

The first James died 22nd March 1870 aged 2 from Bronchitis in George St, Ayr. His parents are listed as Elizabeth McShane and John Scullion.
The second James died on 1st September 1873 aged 3, again in George St, again the parents are listed as Elizabeth and John. I couldn't read the cause of death.

Helen died aged 14  at 110 Cross St, Ayr in 1887.
Patrick died in Kyle Union Poorhouse aged 25 in 1906. No Records survive.
John died in December 1934, he is described as the widower of Jane Elliot however I can find no record of her birth or death nor their marriage.

Also to note that on the 1871 census John and Bridget are living with Bridget's sister Mary McShane and her 2 year old illigitimate daughter Catherine (presumabley named after Mary and Bridget's mother - Catherine McKay).

Are there lots of name similarities, and have you come across any of the above before? I'm convinced they're all linked, James and John Scullion, but how is still only a guess!