Walter Fitzsimons COMPLETED

[EdCan]

Still have not nailed Walter down to my satisfaction. Too much info and too many questions.

In 1881 census there is a Walter Fitzsimons 58 born abt 1823 Ireland and retired from fire brigade. Who is he and where is he after 1881?
The 1901 Irish census of Walter and Elleanora should have nothing to do with my Walter since he was living in Hackney in 1901. Therefore I do not think the Fitzsimons/Ryder marriage is theirs.
My Walter died 5 Oct 1906 Hackney at age of 77 with occupation of Debt Collector. Informant was St George Ryder Fitzsimons (son). This ties in with 1891 and 1901 census.

Ed

[Valda]

Hi


You have Walter in the Hackney censuses 1881-1901 and his death in Hackney in 1906. In 1881 he is with his son Walter William Harris Fitzsimons (born circa 1854) and his wife Sophie Geraldine nee Hamilton (married Ireland - references given). Walter junior died in Hackney in 1885 and his widow married his brother St George Ryder Fitzsimons (born circa 1862) on 20th October 1890 Stoke Newington (father Walter a solicitor's clerk). It was illegal at the time to marry your brother's widow. It would appear though that Walter junior and St George were more likely half brothers.
Since St George Ryder Fitzsimons is the son of Walter (as shown from his marriage) then the marriage reference already given in Ireland of Walter Fitzsimons marriage to Eleanora Helena Ryder in 1861 is a strong possibility for his parents' marriage. A possible first marriage for Walter was in 1852 in Dublin.


Edward Jackson Fitzsimons married in 1864 Limerick but not necessarily to the same wife found with him in 1901-  Eleanor, if the Edward J Fitzsimons on the 1901 census is him. I can't see anywhere a reference given to a Walter and Eleanor in Ireland in 1901?


You would need to obtain some of the Irish certificates refered to for Walter to progress further.

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1408347

Irish civil registration indexes begin in 1845 for non-Catholic marriages. Civil registration indexes to births, deaths, and all marriages (including Catholic) begin in 1864.


Regards

Valda

[EdCan]

Thanks Valda

My problem is the 1881 census. There seems to be too much descrepency between it and the 1891/1901 census both for occupation and age. I have a hard time seeing a person who describes himself as gent(marriage cert) and lawyer as putting himself down as being retired from the fire brigade. Gent and lawyer also apply to his time in Ireland prior to being sentenced for forgery in 1862.

Ed

[Valda]

Hi

All the names are very distinctive and tie up. His son as head of house would be the most likely person to fill in the household schedule for 1881. The connection with the fire brigade in 1881 is N M. You would need to know what N M stood for to know what the position was? There is no indication that either man was an actual fire officer.

1881 census RG11 282 folio 65
49 Church Street Stoke Newington Hackney
Walter Fitzsimons 27 Head Married N M Fire Brigade Queenstown Ireland
Sophia G. Fitzsimons 30 Wife Married Ireland
Ada V. Fitzsimons 11 Daughter Greenwich Kent
Walter Fitzsimons 58 Widower Retd? N M Fire Brigade Cork Ireland

1874 Rathdown
Sophia Geraldine HAMILTON
Walter William Harris FITZSIMONS
Both Vol 12 Page 782

21st January 1877 St Paul Deptford born 21st November 1876
Ada Violet Fitzsimons parents Walter Wm H and Sophia Geraldine, 462 New Cross Road, father's occupation gentleman

20th September 1885 St Mary Stoke Newington Hackney born 25th July
Hyacinth Blanche Fitzsimons parents Walter William Harris and Sophia Geraldine, 4 Summerhouse Road, father's occupation Gentleman
 
Deaths Dec 1885     
Fitzsimons  Walter William H  32  Hackney  1b 294

20th October 1890 St Mary, Stoke Newington
St George Ryder Fitzsimons 28 Bachelor Clerk 4 Summerhouse Road Walter Fitzsimons Solicitor's clerk
Sophie Geraldine Fitzsimons 40 Widow 4 Summerhouse Road Thomas Hamilton Law Proctor
Both signed
Witnesses Henry William Budd and A L Sweetland

1891 census RG12 179 folio 106
4 Summerhouse Road Stoke Newington
St George Ryder Fitzsimons 29 Head Married Insurance Office Clerk Gunnerstown Cork
Sophia Geraldine Fitzsimons 46 Wife Married Kingsdown Dublin
Ada Violet Fitzsimons 14 Daughter Greenwich
Hyacinth Blanch Fitzsimons 2 Stoke Newington

Regards

Valda

[EdCan]

Thanks Valda

I guess that I had a hard time accepting that my Walter had anything to do with being retired from fire brigade. As late as 1874 he was still in Ireland being charged with theft from mail boats. But I now see how everything connects.

Ed

[Valda]

Hi


In which case anything said on the 1881 census may be a complete or partial fabrication or in the circumstance it might have been the best work he or at least his son could get.


Regards

Valda

[suevize]

Hi Valda, Ed and Maryam

Not sure if this will help, but Edward Jackson Fitzsimmons married Eleanora O'Donnell daughter of Elliott O'Donnell and Sarah Vize in Limerick. I believe this is the 1864 marriage and the same Elleanora [transcribed Elleanard!] of the 1901 census.

This Edward appears to be the one mentioned in the London Gazette a number of times.

As to their son Edward John Vize Fitzsimmons, I am wondering if the son born 1866 in Galway and the son aged 20 born in Galway in the 1901 census are the same and there has been some recording error. The family seems to have been based around Limerick normally and not Galway, the birth of both in Galway is what makes me suspicious.

Still trying to trace what happened to them but your posts have been very useful!

I am not sure of the connection between Edward and Walter, I would assume brothers as already mentioned, due to the ages, father's name, connection with Limerick.

Sue