William and Johana Murphy

[shanew147]

have you found any of the family on later census returns ?

sometimes you can be lucky and get a more detailed place of birth to narrow down the search in Ireland.

p.s. did William & Johanna have any children born in England ?



Shane

[ppym]

Shane, I haven't gone in that direction yet. I have just found an Irish record for a John born 26.5.1864 in Newcastle District, Limerick but to a Patrick Murphy and Joanna Lewis. Margaret did not show up though. I was wondering if William was a second husband, which prompted this search. Pauline

[shanew147]

Shane, I haven't gone in that direction yet. I have just found an Irish record for a John born 26.5.1864 in Newcastle District, Limerick but to a Patrick Murphy and Joanna Lewis. Margaret did not show up though. I was wondering if William was a second husband, which prompted this search. Pauline

I presume that was from the extracted records on familysearch ?

Margaret was born c1862,.... so before the start of full civil records (1864), which were used to generate that collection, so she would not be included.

That record you found sounds like it might be worth following up...


Shane

[shanew147]

sorry - misunderstood your point about the father being Patrick instead of William..

It's possible that John was born before the start of civil registration, and it's also worth noting that the extracted records on familysearch do not cover all areas, so might not include the correct area for your Murphys.

It's definitely worth following the family forward (any one of the Irish born) on the census to see if a more detailed place of birth is mentioned.

Murphy being the most common surname in Ireland at that time does help things..



Shane

[ppym]

Shane, yes I think it may be worth pursuing. I was thinking that the trade of shoemaker is not one that is learnt overnight and is quite often passed on from father to son in times gone by. With that in mind I looked up the Slaters Directory for 1846 in Limerick and found..surprise surprise..a Patrick Murphy boot and shoemaker in Mary Street!
It may be a complete red herring but mistakes are quite often made with names. the only problem then remains the census being a William. The plot thickens. Pauline

[ppym]

Hi Shane, I think I may have got somewhere with yesterday's query.
There is a death of a Joanna in 1881 in Liverpool. This would have enabled William to re-marry. The 1881 census showed that there was a William and Lopana Murphy with a daugh. Margaret (now 19) and a son John (3). At  first this seems a little unlikely but if there was an error and the son was 3 mths not 3 yrs it could fit. It is always likely of course that at 17 yrs. the first son had left home. It is not unusual for the same name to be used repeatedly even if the name is already in use.There are a lot of coincidences. Am I dealing with 1 or 2 Murphy families?

Secondly; Johanna Murphy was shown as a bookbinder..a skilled occupation and therefore one that she may well have learnt from her parents. A look in dirctories in Limerick shows a bookbinder called Grogan. My g.g. grnd father was John Grogan Murphy..he would have been the first son mentioned in the 1871 census, hence I think he was away from home in 1881
Again it is not unusual for a surname to be used as a second name in order to keep a family name 'live'. This would suggest that joanna's maiden name may have been Grogan.

I would value your opinion. Regards, Pauline

[heywood]

Hello Pauline,

I had a look at this last evening but had nothing more to offer at the time- couldn't find the family in later censuses.

However, there are a couple of things arising from your post.

I think (and thought it last night)  that Lopana is a mistranscription of Johanna. I just checked and still think that.
Also, I think she was a boot binder in 1871, which would fit with her husband's occupation of shoemaker.

On the other hand, the Grogan connection sounds good.

May I ask, are these people definitely your ancestors?

thanks
Heywood

[ppym]

Hi Heywood, yes. My father was called William M,his father was also a William but his father was a John Grogan M and his father was William married to Johanna.

I have checked an re-checked the linkages and they appear to stand scrutiny. Also much of it ties in with the family scuttlebutt e.g. the family originally came from Limerick. (interstingly my maternal g/mthrs side is supposed to have some connection with the family associated with George Henry Lee's. So far that stands up too)

I like your suggestion about the misspelling..why didn't I think of that?

many thanks for assistance. I think the Irish connection will take alittle while to fathom out. To date I have drawn a blank and w/out Johanna's maiden name it will be all the more difficult. Regards, Pauline

[heywood]

This may be a coincidence but there is a marriage for a John Grogan Murphy in 1875 to Rose Armstrong.