Rhyd-Ddu Beddgelert

[litherland lass]

Hi Jo,
thanks for your comments.
I've already done the VR's at the record office in Caernarvon year. Mary was a spinster. Her mother and father are listed upto 1929 on the VR's and then her name appears. I've also seen the deeds for the property and she bought Plas Du in 30/40's.
i have however, found more info on my grand father and his parents and siblings.
it's getting very interesting.
Kind regards
litherland lass

[Jo Harding]

Hello litherland lass,

Oooh, it is very exciting for us all who have been following this. Have you solved the mystery? Can you tell us what you have found?

It should be possible to find Mary in a census, that is unless you have done so already.

Jo

[litherland lass]

hi Jo,
yes we have research Mary. We know she was a spinster. I think I am going to have to do more research on her mother and father of which I have limited info. First I will need to guess a marriage date,  and this will give me a maiden name. So far I haven't been able to find anything that makes feel confident I have the right people, but will continue my search.
will keep everyone upto date.
kind regards
Litherland Lass Pauline

[EmyrBorth]

Hi
Info re your family, unsorted, so might duplicate info that has already appeared:
Caernarvonshire/Llandwrog/Dist.20/page21 - 1881 Census.
3 Bronyfoel Terr.  Robert Roberts  30  Abersoch;  Winifred  25  Rhyd Ddu;  Robert J?  4  Llandwrog ;  Elias W  2  Llandwrog;  Hugh Roberts (Boarder)  26  Beddgelert.

Dist.19/p.16  - 1891 Census
1 Ceserea Terr.  Robert Roberts  35?  Llanengan;  Gwen Roberts  35  Beddgelert;  Robert J?  15 ; Ellias W  11;  Benjamin  8 ;  David  6;  Evan E?  4 ;  John M  10months ;  all Llandwrog.

NOTE:  Rhyd Ddu is in Beddgelert Parish; Abersoch is in Llanengan Parish.
Wife's name changed from Winifred to Gwen. Welsh equivalent of Winifred is GWENffri and people named Winifred were often referred to as Gwen. Gwen appears to be the daughter of Elias Williams of Rhyd Ddu, and so Elias W aged 2 in 1881 appears to named after Gwen's father. If Winifred and Gwen were different persons, then a child of the first wife would have been named after the second wife's father whilst Robert was married to the first, which doesn't make sense.

Caernarvonshire/Beddgelert/Dist.12/p.10  1861 Census 
Rhyd Ddu   Elias Williams  38  Beddgelert;  Ann Williams  38  Llannor;  Gwen  6;  Margret  4;  Jane  1;  Dorothy  1?;  all Beddgelert.

In 1871 Census, Llandwrog/17/8 , there's a Gwen Williams 16  Servant  born Beddgelert, living at Gilwern Isaf, about one and a half miles from Ceserea Terrace. Don't know if it's the same Gwen.

Baptism in Beddgelert Parish Register:   April 7th 1855  Gwen  daughter of Elias/Anne Williams  Rhyd-du   miner.
I thought I had info re a marriage, but can't find it if I have !
Emyr
   

[litherland lass]

Thanks for the information emyrborth will try and digest it.

Litherland Lass

[rhosboeth]

Hi,
I hope Pauline doesn't mind, but to save repetition of effort,  here is some information I have already relayed to Litherland Lass by personal message concerning an Elias Williams in my family tree who had a daughter called Gwen (whether it is the same Gwen as hers is still to be confirmed!):

1841 Census: Beddgelert (part) HO 107/1391/1/16) [incl part of Rhyd Ddu]
Gefnan:     Elias Williams 15 Ag Lab  living with his parents Griffith and Elizabeth
[an old essay at Bangor Univ. Archives suggests that Griffith Williams of Gefnan is the son of the family at Wernlasdeg (a farm just outside Beddgelert) -could be linked to Bryn Melyn]
[Elizabeth - not born in county, 1851 census states she was from Trawsfynydd (Mer.)]
[Gefnan - not the terraced house of the same name currently in Rhyd ddu village, but previously (up to ca.1890's?) of a small cottage on a ridge (hence the name), overlooking Llyn y Gader, on Ffridd Uchaf land]
[T.Ceiri Griffiths "Achau rhai o deuluoedd hen Siroedd ......(etc)" (2003) p.[224(a)] shows Elias baptised at Beddgelert 9/3/1822.  - See this ref for some related families at Beddgelert]

1851 Census: Beddgelert: HO 107/2512/17 (schedule no:51):
Gefnan:    Elias Williams, son, unm, 29 Miner, Caern, Beddgelert
living with his widowed mother and widowed sister Ann (my ancestor) and her children (incl.Griffith, my gg grandfather)

Beddgelert Marriage register [p.74 entry 148]: 28 Feb 1852: Elias Williams 28, miner Gefnant [Gefnan] s/o Griffith Williams (Labourer) to Ann Pritchard 28, Llan[n]or,  d/o David Pritchard (farmer)

Beddgelert Baptisms:[p.18/entry 144] Apr 7 1855 : Gwen d/o Elias (miner) and Ann Williams Rhyd ddu
[pity they only mention the name of the village and not the property ...!]
[& haven't yet found bapt records for their other children!]

1861 Rhyd Ddu/Beddgelert - RG9/4327/??/10 schedule no.49 in Rhyd Ddu village proper (property name not shown):
Elias Williams, Head, Married, Copper miner 38 with his wife (Ann) also 38, from Llannor  and four daughters Elizabeth (8 )  Gwen (6) Margret (18m) and Jane (18m) [Twins?]

1871 Census  Rhyd Ddu/Beddgelert -RG10/5701/??
in Rhyd Ddu village, but property name/number not given (schedule no 59)
Elias Williams Head, Marr, 49 Quarryman and his wife Anne (45! should be 49??) from
Llannor and their daughters: Dorothy (11), Mary (9), Margaret (7) and Jane (2)
[strange that Dorothy doesn't appear on 1861 census if she's 11!, - no mention of Elizabeth or Gwen  (moved away?/married?) and the fact that their last two have the same names as previous children suggests that the twins may have died (haven't investigated this)]

1881 census Beddgelert/Rhyd Ddu RG11/5554/??
schedule no 39: "Rhyd ddu village no 29"
Elias Williams, Head, Married, 58 Quarryman, and his wife Ann (58) of Llannor and daughters Dorothy (21)(unm) and Jane (12), and grandson John M Williams (1)

Welsh language newspaper "Y Genedl Gymraeg"  published 8/Jun/1889:  Deaths: (in Welsh):
"Williams. April 27th [1889] .....67 years old, Mr Elias Williams, Bower Street, Rhyd Ddu (formerly of Gefnan)"
[his burial record not found in Beddgelert Parish records!]

1891 Census Beddgelert/Rhyd Ddu: RG12/4649/??/12 schedule no 70:
2 Bower Street, Rhyd Ddu:
Ann Williams Wid. 70 of Llannor, and one daughter Jane (22)(unm)

1901 Census Beddgelert/Rhyd Ddu: RG13/5260/92/11 schedule no 66
Bower Street (no number given): Ann Williams Head, Wid,(78) of Llannor
[no-one else listed as living at the same dwelling]

1911  Census - not yet checked!

Beddgelert Memorial Inscriptions (St.Mary's church) (Gwynedd FH index M.219)
- couldn't find any headstone associated with Elias and Ann Williams
but the index has an identically named couple buried in an unmarked grave: H.26  [no dates/addresses given] (index may have been compiled from the sexton's records?)

 
John (Rhosboeth)