Greensleeves Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In

[nigelp]

The following article on illegitimacy may be of interest:

http://www.alanmacfarlane.com/TEXTS/BASTARDY.PDF

Nigel

[Ruskie]

It is all well and good to know the definitions and 'rules' regarding illegitimacy, but in this case it is dependent on whether the person who filled in the PR knew and understood the rules, or chose to follow them.

It has been suggested that maybe they had reasons for writing the regsiter for William's baptism in that method. It would be worth checking the other entries to see who wrote the entries (eg was it a Shadforth?) and the wording they used for other illegitimate children.

[deb usa]

hi Ruskie   

[deb usa]

It seems to me that Robert jnr's dad, Robert, the Parish Clerk, wanted to "let it be known" that William (Alice's child) was NOT Robert Jnr's.

It sounds like a small town where everyone knows everyone and what they were doing... sounds like a big scandal 

[Pastmagic]

Hi Greensleeves, just popped in to have a look and see how you are doing....pretty good so far!PM

Nothing much here, but just in case they turn out to be related: These people are all in graves  in St. Hilda's too.....

http://www.interment.net/data/eng/durham/sthilda/hilda_ag.htm

Burrel, Robert, bur. 28 Nov 1784, Age 35yr, [DO]
Burrell, Jane, bur. 16 Oct 1778, d/o Isaac and Ann, [DO]
Burrell, Margaret, bur. 24 Oct 1791, Widow of Robert, [DO]
Burrell, Margaret, bur. 5 Feb 1780, d/o Isaac and Ann, [DO]

Coulson, Ann, d. 7 Mar 1801, bur. 9 Mar 1801, age: 8mo, d/o Thomas and Isabella, [DO]
Coulson, Benjamin, bur. 20 Feb 1788, age: 63yr, [DO]
Coulson, Benjamin, bur. 21 Jul 1781, s/o George, [DO]
Coulson, Catherine, bur. 20 Dec 1781, Widow, [DO]
Coulson, Eleanor, bur. 12 Oct 1780, w/o Benjamin, [DO]
Coulson, George, bur. 26 Nov 1778, s/o George and Isabella, [DO]
Coulson, George, bur. 31 Jul 1788, s/o George, [DO]
Coulson, George, bur. 5 Mar 1796, [DO]
Coulson, Isabella, d. 2 Aug 1806, bur. 5 Aug 1806, age: 31yr, Consumption, w/o Robert, [DO]
Coulson, James Barclay Coulson, d. 11 Aug 1799, bur. 13 Aug 1799, age: 4mo, s/o Thomas, [DO]
Coulson, James, bur. 13 Jan 1795, [DO]
Coulson, John, bur. 5 Dec 1782, [DO]
Coulson, Mary, bur. 11 Aug 1789, d/o Robert and Barbara, [DO]
Coulson, Mary, d. 9 Aug 1807, bur. 11 Aug 1807, age: 69yr, w/o William, [DO]
Coulson, Nicholas, bur. 18 Aug 1783, s/o George and Isabella, [DO]
Coulson, Robert, d. 7 Oct 1803, bur. 9 Oct 1803, age: 4yr, s/o James, [DO]
Coulson, Sarah, bur. 8 Mar 1789, d/o James and Elizabeth, [DO]
Coulson, William Jnr, bur. 21 Dec 1794, [DO]
Coulson, William, bur. 6 May 1789, s/o William and Mary, [DO]
Coulson, William, d. 25 Feb 1799, bur. 27 Feb 1799, age: 67yr, s/o James, [DO]

[Ruskie]

hi Ruskie   

Hello Deb m'dear - it looks like we missed eachother 

It seems to me that Robert jnr's dad, Robert, the Parish Clerk, wanted to "let it be known" that William (Alice's child) was NOT Robert Jnr's.

It sounds like a small town where everyone knows everyone and what they were doing... sounds like a big scandal

I would love to know the full story behind this.

Too early for any local newspaper reports I imagine? Or none that survive ...

[toni*]

Is there a register of Parish Clerks somewhere? I know Lambeth Palace hold Anglican clergyman records did you need any qualifications to be a parish clerk except a relationship with God and to be able to scribe? did the people who took on these positions see themselves as higher in the community than others?
Did they receive income for being a parish clerk in which case you must expect there to be some sort of accountancy book.

[osprey]

I put a link on reply 36 about parish clerks - they were not meant to be making entries in the registers:-

"Now the parish clerk was appointed by the rectoral vicar and acted as his clerk and sometimes as clerk to the vestry.  He assisted at the church services and led the responses and in some parishes he would act acted as the sexton as well and actually dig the grave and actually maintain the churchyard. He might sometimes make entries in the parish registers, but he wasn't supposed to.  Only the parish priest, witnessed by the churchwardens, should actually make entries in the parish registers.  But, sometimes in the 18th century and early 19th century, particularly in the period when the clergy could be very lax, you can find examples of the parish clerks actually making entries in the baptismal and marriage registers although after 1812 it specified in the Parochial Registers Act that it had to be the parish priest that made the entries. And under Lord Hardwicke's Marriage Act in 1753, where he required the bride and groom to sign the register or make their mark and their witnesses to sign the register or make their mark, the parish priest had to make the entry in the register.  But there are examples of the clerks making entries in baptismal and burial, what we call general registers, in the late 18th century, up to 1812. 
[Shows image]
This is an example of an appointment of a parish clerk, Francis Ray in Sutton Maddock, a parish in Shropshire in 1808 in May.  Now you might find details of an appointment details of an appointment mentioned in the vestry records, the vestry minutes or in the churchwardens' accounts. But if you don't, then the appointment had to be ratified by the archdeacon and a copy sent to the diocesan registrar.  So if there's nothing in the parish records, it's worth checking at the diocesan record office, which is normally a county record office, to see if there are records of appointments of parish clerks, and you usually get a couple of nominations or certainly the nomination from the parish priest saying, 'I would like to appoints so-and-so to be my parish clerk'. 
Sometimes you'll get a recommendation as well.  "

As said before, checking the registers to see who made the entry & the wording of other entries would look to be the way to go.

 

[Trees]

Hi Toni* I have several PCs on my tree there was no official register someone did start compiling a list but hasn't added any for years he acknowledged my submission about three years back but they never appeared on the list. There is a Guild of Parish clerks but they have very few records of them. It depended on the parish if the clerk was paid or just received expenses Some like Yarnton in Oxfordshire had a house and were expected to teach as well as all the other duties. Other small parishes paid expenses which appear in the Wardens accounts, some parishes were left legacies for the upkeep of a clerk. The clerk sang all the responses made sure the congregation were orderly and in regular attendance, rang the calling bell he WAS the second in rank to the priest, The registers were officially kept by the priest but often the clerk wrote them up or at least kept a note book of the various events for the priest to enter He often witnesses marriages so I expect when Greensleeves sees the registers she will find her ancestors name as witness to most weddings in his time of office. The wardens were elected from the congregation or rather one was the second chosen by the priest. The wardens looked after the running of the parish the financial and side  selection of poorlaw officials collection of poorlaw rates and so on the clerk helped with the services.while the clerk looked after the services.
Hope that helps the meaning of Clerk can be misleading remember a priest is a Clerk in holy orders but you don't think of him as a secretary either
H.
Red post sorry osprey  great minds think alike
added most of mine had other trades such as my Charles Pratt of St Nicholas Warwick who continued shoe making and letter writing for other people