clyne family - menmuir angus

[weemanswife]

Hi Again,

    In the 1851 census on A there a Elizabeth Clyne aged 58 staying with her son James aged 20 and his siblings Daved aged 9 and Marjory aged 15.  Elizabeth seems to have been born in St. Cyrus, Kincardineshire.


Regards,
Weemanswife

[weemanswife]

Hi,

Have come across another tree on A.  Was looking for William & Elizabeth and it came up.  If you go to Scotlandspeople Website and buy credits.  You should be able to get the deaths of William & Elizabeth and you will get copies of the certificates which will give you some of the information you require.

Deceased on line has  a William Clyne buried 3 Jul 1889 Newmonthill Cemetery, Forfar and Elizabeth Clyne buried 3 Jan 1918.

Regards,
Weemanswife

[JaneMBain]

I descend from the Clynes in Menmuir through John Clyne and his wife Elizabeth Balfour. I have a fair amount of information on the family and happy to share if you wish
Jane

(and save some SP look ups!)

[Cowiedavid]

Hi all on this thread. I have a slightly unusual request. My great grandmother was born in Menmuir in 1864 and on her birth registration it states that she was illegitimate and her mother was Christina Anderson. The interesting thing is that on her birth registration she is named as Helen Anderson but on the 1871 census she is listed as Helen Clyne and is the granddaughter of Robert Anderson at the Smithy House, Balrownie, Menmuir, Angus, Scotland. On the 1881 census she is listed as Helen Cline at Little Brechin, Angus, Scotland as a domestic servant.
Her mother Christina was born in 1842 in Menmuir and lived with her parents until marrying in 1873 so my take on all of this information is that Helen's possible father was a member of the Clyne family of Menmuir. Can any of you help me with establishing whether this could be true or not. Have any descendants of the various Clynes mentioned in this thread done a DNA test that I can see if we any shared DNA.
I know this is a long shot but this has been my brickwall for years and I have not used this site for a number of years and thought I would give it a try.
Thanks for your consideration of this post.
Regards David Stephen 

[Forfarian]

It's quite common for an illegitimate child to be registered with the mother's surname but known throught her/his life by his/her father's surnam, so there is nothing remarkable in Helen being registered as Anderson but in the census as Clyne. And yes, it is a reasonable conclusion that Helen's father's surname was Clyne.

Finding out which Clyne, however, is not so easy.

Have you got your great-grandmother's marriage or death certificate (or both?) Do they give her father's name and occupation?

Another avenue you could try is the Kirk Session records. These often record unmarried pregnancies, and in most cases the errant father is named. The KS records are in the National Archives of Scotland. They have been digitied, but cannot yet be accessed online, so you either need to go to Edinburgh, or to one of the local archives that has access, or you need to get someone to go and look up the Menmuir KS records for you.

[Rosinish]

Cowiedavid,

Just checking there was no RCE attached to the birth which you may have missed?

Annie

[Cowiedavid]

Annie

I do not understand what you mean by RCE.
It is not a term I have come across in genealogy.
Can you explain what it means please.
Thanks

David

[Forfarian]

Register of Corrected Entries.

Sometimes it becomes necessary to amend the information on a certificate. This is not done by adding the information to the original, but by making an entry in the RCE.

For example there may have been a court case to determine paternity, and the outcome of that would be in the RCE.

If this is the case, there will be a notice on the Scotland's People web site above the image of the certificate, saying "There are 1 corrections ....". Clicking on this link brings up an image of the relevant RCE page.

[Cowiedavid]

Thanks for the explanation.
Unfortunately there is no RCE.
I have also scanned the Kirk Sessions records for the period after the birth on microfilm looking for action by the parish council to determine paternity but also no result. My local family history group got them from the USA for me.
There is only her mother (Christina Anderson) named on her marriage certificate but on her death certificate the father named is James Anderson who should have been James Duncan who was married to her mother 9 years after Helen's birth and he would only have been 12 when Helen was born. He was 10 years younger then Helen's mother and an apprentice blacksmith to her grandfather (Robert Anderson).
Hence the reason i am asking about any DNA tests as they can help establish connections around brick walls.
As I am in Australia it is often difficult to get around brick walls in the UK without a DNA test and lots of people in the UK do not get their DNA tested as they believe that they know what their ethnicity is but they can be surprised by the results of the test.

Regards
David