Turnbull - Cramlington 1800 to 1945

[belfordian]

Goodness, this query is certainly long-running! I was curious re your Robert Turnbull enquiry as I have an Eliza Redpath who married a Robson Turnbull. I discovered that the names Lancelot Allgood kept cropping up in his line certainly from at least 1814 to present day. And it turns out Lancelot Allgood was MP for Hexham and the family owned Nunwick Hall. My lines were shepherds and farmworker's so they probably took the names from their employer if they worked on his estate. Like you I have used the Lancelot Allgood names to track other people as it is relatively unusual.

There were certainly men of that name who lived at Crow hall over the years. In my Turnbull research I discovered I am connected through Eliza Redpath,s marriage to Robson Turnbull to 3 people I know in my village which is at the other end of the county from Cramlington area!! Some of the Turnbulls moved up to Belford and so the line spreads!

Here are a few possibilities for you to consider.....
1. Did you send for Robert,s birth cert.? Morpeth one seems most likely. Does it name his father? Of course no one checked the info given at registration so you could invent something and it would rarely be challenged. So a father,s name could be incorrect. Vicars sometimes put the wrong forename. I found a Robert born 1882 on 1901 census at Seghill living with his grandmother MRgRet Turnbull born 1831.
2. Or could be the one at Seaton  Deleval in 1911 born at Annitsford married to Hannah Elizabeth ? A first wife? Jessie might have been his second wife? But I think you said he was described as bachelor on the marriage cert.

I will reread your info and keep thinking.

The Turnbulls around Cramlington stem from lancelot Turnbull born 1814 in Sutherland where his parents had gone from NTHBLD. His father William was a shepherd who married Helen or Eleanor Robson from Elsdon. Most of their children were born in the far north of Scotland. The family was back in Northumberland by 1841. If Lancelot Allgood Turnbull witnessed Robert,s marriage I am pretty sure they are related and so Robert and yourself must be descended from William the shepherd. That means you are connected (very distantly) to me!!




Here are some options for you to explore

[muso_bob]

Hello Belfordian,
Thank you so much once again for your input.
Regarding a Birth Certificate for Robert (Morpeth) - my dilemma is "when was he born"?
Marriage certificate to Jessie Winn state Robert 29 years old.
However, Robert Turnbull death March 1932 - states he was 50 years old!! So eas he 39 when he married, 10 years previously?? The numbers do not fit. If only ....................

I am very interested to see your results of thye Scotland, NBL and Crow Hall links. I have looked at these. When in the UK (I live in Australia) I have visited the address where my grandfather Robert died, March 1932. My mother played around there when 7/8 years old. Not far from Crow Hall Farm. My mother was born at Beacon Farm - I believe in Mining Company cottages. This is literally across the road from the Crow Hall Farm.

I do ythank you for your interest.
You are quite right - this is a long journey, indeed. If only I could isolate Robt's birth. On the maternal side I have delved quite deeply into the Winn, Hill, Robson families.

Robert

[belfordian]

I realise the discrepancy with ages but I would go by the age at death. A vicar or registrar could easily mishear 20 as 30 or even simply make a mistake. Have you seen the original marriage cert? Could it be 30? Sometimes figures are difficult to decipher. Combined with other evidence such as relatives saying that he was much older than his wife I would send for the birth cert from Morpeth for 1882. What is £9.50 if there is a chance of making a discovery? I assume you have not found a baptism?
My sister in law was brought up on a smallholding on Beacon Lane, by the way.

If you do send for it, please let me know the result! I have always understood that the certificates at GRO are photocopies of original. Ones from registrars office are typed or handcopied out and often the Registrar mistakenly transcribes certain words incorrectly. Go for GRO!

[muso_bob]

Hello again, I do have a number of Rbt T birth certs - not mine as I have followed them through with the parents to a dead end. I haven't purchased 10b 336 Dec Q 1882, however. So will get onto that.
The marriage of Rbt & Jessie: I bought the 922 marriage from GRO and I also paid £4.50 for a scan of the actual Church Marriage cert from Woodhorn as another lind Rootschatter had been into Woodhorn and sent me a snippet with the actual signatures of Robert, Jessie and Lancelot. Result: The GRO was a handwritten by a cleerk version. All hand-writing was by the same person. The GRO did not include all details that are on the Church one. Jessie's address was quite different. A decision by the  GRO person possibly. I cannot attach here for copyright reasons and can't attach to a PM to show you what I mean. The ages on both are definitely Robt 29 - Jessie 20. No doubt. Interesting your observation about a possible second marriage! I have wondered that as well given the anomalies of age between marriage and death.
Thanks Robert

[muso_bob]

It has been a long time, however, I do have a new possibility for my grandfather Robert Turnbull.
Knowing the Morpeth Robert fif not have Robert as father: leaving the Hexham 1882 birth Robert as the only one left I had not seen parents names; I purchased the Hexham certificate-
Robert Turnbull born 25 June 1882 Low Prudhoe, Prudhoe Castle, father Robert coal-miner and mother Maria formerly Downs. I am excited, but, now the work to confirm he is my grandfather.
Already looked at census and Robt senior born about 1848 and Maria ABOUT 1851. Maybe someone out there has researched the Downs and has Turnbull on their tree? The new journey begins.

[WolfieSmith]

Robert,
How does this Roberts signature in 1911 census (living with his mother, brother and sister in Chester le Street, he signed the census declaration), compare with the original marriage cert and birth certs that you have copies of.
Alan.

[sticky02]

Hi all you turnbull researchers, can I join in too please.

I am looking for William Turnbull born abt ond 1870 in Cramlington, (according to the 1871 census) his father was Cuthbert and mother Mary.  Oh and siblings of John Arthur b1866 and Ann Margaret b1869.

Now I have picked up the family on the 1881 census which shows Mary is now a Widow with 3 children.

To continue on with William in 1907 he married Henrietta Wood and they had a son Cuthbert in1907 and Alice in 1908.  In 1910 (Jan) they emigrated to USA and indeed are listed on the 1910 census living in Plymouth.  Sadly in Oct of 1910 Henrietta was badly burned and died, the two children were taken in by 'Aunts' and William  ? ? ?  we don't know what happened to him,  a lot of people have said he returned to England but I have no proof and would welcome any additional information you may have.

I have also tried to trace Williams parents and siblings, I believe his parents to be Cuthbert born 12th may 1839 in Chollerton and Mary Arthur born abt 1842 in Ridsdale

Williams Sibling Ann Margaret I think married William Temple and  John Arthur married Isabel Henderson.

But can find more information on what happened to William after 1910  -  Help

[muso_bob]

Hello Alan,
I did compare just before I came on line now. disappointingly, in my humble opinion too different to be the same person. R same - R different capital T not so flamboyant.
So looking like I have missed out - again. I have looked at many many 1911 signatures and none have been close as this is not. So my excitement has been extinguished, somewhat.
Here they are to compare.
Robert

[muso_bob]

Hi Sticky 02, I have not encountered any of the names you are seeking in my quest. I have now met and corresponded with cousins of mine and Uncle and Aunt. Our lines include Turnbull, Winn, Robson and Giroy all in Northumberland. None of these migrated at all. My mother left UK for Australia with me after the end of WWII. Good luck.