Which David MUTTON is which

[cando]

The MUTTON/WILLIAMS and MUTTON/MAY marriages are on IGI.

I can't see a death for a David MUTTON in South Australia of an age to be the father of a son b. 1835/36.

Were there any witnesses to the MUTTON/NICHOLLS marriage?  Not familiar with SA certs.

Cheers
Cando

[Fleurieu]

Thanks Cando.   Illogan is where my Muttons are from in the 1700s.   In the 1500s they were South Hill - east side of Cornwall.    I have most records, but, your findings of Gwennap parish are of interest.   The witnesses to the Mutton/Nicholls marriage were Stephen Nicholls and Sarah Boundy.  Neither the bride nor groom could read, they made their mark.  The witnesses were able to sign. Thanks for your help.   Fleurieu.

[Essie]

Hi Fleurieu

:)My mother's maiden name was Mutton. Have been researching and trying to sort this family for many years (among others). Mum's school friend, Gwen Harvey, (Wallaroo Mines) always believed that they were related and I am trying to sort it out. The Gwen is from Eliabeth Mutton and George Canty. My mother is from Edith and Joseph Mutton.

In summary from the records I have seen, Elizabeth CANTY nee MUTTON was the granddaughter of David born c1835 and Elizabeth nee NICHOLLS who married in 1856.
Joseph Eddy MUTTON was the son of Joseph MUTTON born c1855 whose father was also Joseph. 
Then Joseph Eddy's grandfather and David (married to Elizabeth MAY) were sons of William and Hannah Staple? 


I have tried to analyze all details of this thread but the process of sorting out which David is proving difficult to say the least.

I can see four David MUTTON marriage records from 1854-1866 and I wonder if one David was married twice?
David aged 21 m. Kapunda 1856 to Elizabeth NICHOLS aged 21 – only two children recorded at Kooringa (Burra).  Problem is what happened to Elizabeth nee NICHOLS?
David aged 27 m. Redruth (Burra) 1862 to Mary SHEAY aged 27 – children also born at Kooringa
Looks to me like this David was the same age??

It appears neither of these are relevant.
David m. Eliza CURR*TS  m. 1853 – both died at Yongala
David FL age m. 1866 Kapunda to Mary BIGGIN – children born at Kapunda and Yongala.

I can see two David MUTTON death records and both were born c1835 and both had a wife named Mary.
David aged 64 d. 16 Oct 1899 Adelaide & Mary aged 87 d. 17 May 1926 Adelaide  (ex Yongala so not relevant)
David aged 70 d. 20 Aug 1905 Wallaroo Mines & Mary aged 70 d. 10 Aug 1900 Wallaroo Mines
No death recorded for Elizabeth wife of David MUTTON.

Was Elizabeth MUTTON aged 26 who died 4 Aug 1861 at Kooringa recorded with a husband named Richard actually the wife of David who then married Mary SHEAY in 1862???
Or was it just a coincidence a similar aged Elizabeth MUTTON died at Kooringa five years after the MUTTON & NICHOLLS marriage?
I cannot find a mention of a Richard MUTTON in any other BMDs in SA.

Another researcher seems to think William son of Elizabeth nee NICHOLLS was the son of David who married Mary SHEAY which is what I wondered BEFORE I found this page.  And it does not help any confusion!!!
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=our_families&id=I1354

Essie

[Fleurieu]

Hi Essie,  My head is spinning !  Hadn't thought of David marrying twice, but I did wonder why the lack of off-spring.   I have been re-looking at marriages and deaths today and cannot make much headway.   I have two good reasons why I have not believed that the David Mutton who married Mary Sheahy was the son of David Mutton and Elizabeth May. - David and Mary (Sheahy's) children's names do not follow the Cornish tradition of naming.  I have been tracing the Muttons for years and see a pattern for the children's names over the generations; with David and Mary the pattern is not there.   Not absolute proof, I know, but, it is causing me to have doubts.    David and Elizabeth's (Nicholls) children are consistent with names used in previous generations.   My Mum's school friend (who claims David Mutton buried Kadina 1905) to be her GGgrandfather (I have lost count of how many "GGs).   Another researcher, whom I had contact with, back in the 1980s, claims it his "his". .    There must be an answer somewhere .  But there just isn't enough deaths of a David Mutton to fit (as you imply).   Another thing, which, not absolute proof, but Mum and her school friend both had a brother.   These two boys were mistakenly thought to be brothers because they were so much alike.   The families at that time would say "no, not related as far as we know"    How wrong were they, I wonder!   I will ponder the "twice married" idea for a while - it will certainly solve the problem for the two people who claim them!    Thanks for your input.   Fleurieu.

[Fleurieu]

Hi Essie, looked again today re. the possibility of David Mutton re-marrying.   I think it has merit.   As you say, no Richard Mutton anywhere.   I have looked through the marriages, deaths, births and found nothing.   The other researcher, which you gave me a link to, is the person to whom I refer.   BUT, David Mutton who married Elizabeth Nicholls did not travel on the Tantivy, cose it arrived too late for the marriage.   So, shipping lists are missing, is the only explanation.   A David Mutton did arrive on the "David Malcolm", 1847, but that is too early and also David Mutton was on the 1851 english census.    Does this take me back to square 1?   Fleurieu 

[Essie]

Hi Fleurieu

A David MUTTON was recorded Oct 1855 from VIC to Adelaide but his age was given as 32!!   
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/indexes/index_search_results.asp

SA passenger lists do have errors and omissions so that is a plausible explanation.   Trawling through TROVE might turn up some "Shipping Intelligence" for the mid 1850s.

Essie

[sandralost]

I have a Johanna Shea (various spellings) was born 1838 in Kilkenny and her father was Michael a farmer from Kilkenny. No mention of her mother but she had a middle name of Maria?
Johanna listed herself as Judith when she came out to South Australia in 1855 on a ship called the Nashwauk - she could have fudged her age of 19 b 1836-9 (as she was actually 16) this is confirmed in a newspaper report about the shipwreck (she probably lied to get assisted passage as an Irish servant girl).Without a parent you needed to be over 18. A Mary Shea was also on board aged 22 ( also from Kilkenny) b 1833-36 but she could have fudged her age also). Mary could be a sister or cousin. The Nadhwauk was wrecked just off landing and Johanna/Judith was rescued by a mounted police officer who became her husband (John Bentley a mounted policeman).
Johanna/Judith Shea married a Thomas castle in Kooringa in 1858 (witness Nancy Duggan) and left South Australia in 1859 where she had a child with John Bentley in Sydney (118 Clarence street) After she moved to Katoomba she and John had a further 10 children.
Johanna/Judith was possibly related to archbishop Thomas Oshea from New Zealand as he visited Katoomba during an illness. Also a possible connection with a Mary Coogan from Kilkenny who resided at 118 Clarence street Sydney and was married to a James Bentley and had a child at this address in 1860.
I think Mary Mutton was Mary Shea who arrived in SA on the Nashwauk shipwreck in 1855 with her cousin Johanna/Judith!
Any info appreciated? Kind regards Sandra - Australia

[Spike H]

Could this be your Johanna?

Groom; Thomas CASTLE
Bride; Johanna SHAY
Marriage; January 13, 1858 at St Aloysius Chapel Sevenhill
Groom; 25 (1833)
Father; Thomas CASTLE
Bride; 20 (1838)
Father; Michael SHAY
Clare 33/27

[sandralost]

Yes this is my Johanna! Are you aware if she may be any link to Mary Mutton (Sheahy)?
If Mary Mutton was from Kilkenny in Ireland and her father was Patrick and my Johanna's father was Michael they may have been related? A Judith Shea (Johanna) and Mary Shea came to South Australia in 1855 as Irish servant girls on the ship Nashwauk which was wrecked Port Noaralinga before arriving (Liverpool to Adelaide). Both these girls were from Kilkenny and they both could have fudged their ages to be accepted as assisted immigrants?

Interestingly Thomas Castle was a bogus name for John Bentley ( he was a Protestant and Johanna was a catholic). I know it was a bogus name because it was mentioned in a Supreme Court case in Adelaide during the contesting of a will of Thomas Friend Bentley ( John Bentley's brother). Both John Bentley and his brother Edward were mounted police officers Burra/Redruth/Clare/Kapunda/Kooringa South Australia
Edward stayed in South Australia while Johanna Shea and John Bentley moved to Katoomba nsw and had 10 children together!
Any help appreciated