will they ever say Sorry

[t mo]

hello scrimnet
i was just trying to add this reply to your post when irishresearcher beat me to it and mine has been lost in the ether somewhere so believe me when i reiterate what irishresearcher says it,s a pity haig wasn,t one of them he and his cronies were who i was alluding to in my comments regarding officers sitting well back from the front and i was aware that a lot of officers were killed leading there men from the front as they went over the top .
and i thank you for the list of books which i will source if pos most of my reading matter on ww1 has been the likes of harry patches book and another by richard van emden called the great war through veterans eyes this i,m sure you know is taken from diaries kept by the soldiers and officers ( and a comment must be made that express orders were given that no man was to keep a diary or take photographs ) why is that if not to supress the horrors that they faced , i also realise that if a man were captured or killed that if info that was useful to the enemy was written down it would or could cause a lot of damage so i do try to see both sides of a coin in this back to the emden book other extracts are from the imp war museum so as far as i,m concerned this is a work of fact not something cobbled together just to make money .
 this is my own humble opinion and i stand or fall by it ww1 was a last attempt by useless senior commanders for a bit of glory before they shuffled off this mortal coil and they failed abysmally and took virtually a whole generation of fine men with them i,ll stop now as i could rant on for a lot longer , as i said in my other post i apologise to one and all for this but it,s what i feel  , i promise i will make no further comment on this post .
happy new year to one and all and may we never forget those men on both sides lead by donkeys
i,ve just seen the updates on this and i for one am solidly behind irishresearcher for what it,s worth
trevor

[irishresearcher]

I googled it.......78

3 drowned
12 (at least) by sniper
Quite a number by shell fire
22 small arms fire
1 accidentally poisoned
1 cholera

By the way I take your point on tanks.......... though he did start off in 1914 with cavalry charges. ( ex cavalry officer)

I believe  his persistence with sending wave after wave of soldiers over the top knowingly they'd get mown down is what he will be remembered for.

I've also checked Germans that were executed in WWI and the figure is considerably lower than the 300+ that the British carried out.

So the US and Germany were considerably less than the British........ France executed double that of the British but Id be interested to know how many were Afro-French.

[Gaille]

Hi


The deserters who were executed in the First World War were pardoned in 2006

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/aug/17/military.immigrationpolicy
http://www.greatwar.nl/frames/default-shotatdawn.html

http://www.economist.com/node/7804031


Regards

Valda

i would also like to add to this.

I regularly go to the National Arboretum near Alrewas in Staffordshire, and there is a memorial there for the men, each his own name and age, along with the regiment he was in, on a plaque on a post, and they are arranged in a semi Circle around a central statue of a blindfolded soldier.

It may sound wierd, but its such a peaceful serene area, I often sit there just thinking, last time I was there I met a man visiting the plaque of a relative, I think it was either his father or brother, and he told me it gave him peace to know his relatives plaque was there surrounded by others who had met the same fate as him.

If you get chance you realy should go & see the memorial, its named 'Shot at Dawn' and situated behind the main memorial on the left hand side, any of the staff will give you directions to it if you ask ( I would add, its better to go in drier weather as the ground in most of the Arboretum is grassed & gets difficult in wet weather!)

Gaille

[scrimnet]

I googled it.......78

3 drowned
12 (at least) by sniper
Quite a number by shell fire
22 small arms fire
1 accidentally poisoned
1 cholera

By the way I take your point on tanks.......... though he did start off in 1914 with cavalry charges. ( ex cavalry officer)

I believe  his persistence with sending wave after wave of soldiers over the top knowingly they'd get mown down is what he will be remembered for.

I've also checked Germans that were executed in WWI and the figure is considerably lower than the 300+ that the British carried out.

So the US and Germany were considerably less than the British........ France executed double that of the British but Id be interested to know how many were Afro-French.

The wave after wave thing is also a contentious issue!

Dont forget that this was a war originally fought on 19th Century colonial terms, and planned for  fast moving engagements with the cavalry doing what the tanks did later. It was no mistake that the Tank Corps  were (and still are!) recognised by  cavalry distinctions.

Haig learnt and embraced the new technologies. It was he who pushed forward the idea of All Arms attacks. I would write more eruditely on this, but I'm stuck on a hospital bed having had an abdo operation yesterday and thus have no access to the references in my library!!

What I will say however is that I cannot commend the Gary Sheffield book highly enough. and for something a bit more forthright Corrigans Mud Blood and Poppycock

[irishresearcher]

Good luck on your recovery.

Though I think you should widen your reading material on Haig.

I'll leave this thread alone now......... I think most recognise he was one of the most stubborn of military leaders who cost far too many lives.

I believe it was his inability to learn from past mistakes that will consign him to being a weak military leader in most people's eyes.

[t mo]

hello scrimnet
i too would like to add my best wishes for a speedy recovery for you and a happy new year to you and yours
trevor 

[t mo]

hello gaille
thank you for posting that piece regarding the memorial for those executed i for one was not aware such a memorial existed and if i,m ever in the area would certainly like to go there to see it  , i,ll have a google to see if there are photos of it online thinking about it  .
happy new year to you

trevor

[Gaille]

hello gaille
thank you for posting that piece regarding the memorial for those executed i for one was not aware such a memorial existed and if i,m ever in the area would certainly like to go there to see it  , i,ll have a google to see if there are photos of it online thinking about it  .
happy new year to you

trevor

Hi Trevor,

Photo should be attached.

Also if you look at my avatar over on the left all the photos are of the NMA.

Gaille

[t mo]

hello gaillle
bless your heart deary thanks for putting that up it certainly looks a beautiful memorial i can see why it,s special to so many very tasteful in deed , on a lighter note i,ve always wanted to have a frock coat such as portrayed but being such a shorthouse it would look more like an over coat on me.
trevor