Author Topic: Can you search for house number and road in 1861?  (Read 12513 times)

Offline astral14

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Re: Can you search for house number and road in 1861?
« Reply #45 on: Saturday 01 January 11 13:00 GMT (UK) »
In that case, I would speculate that the James Crocker born 1820 c is the son of James Crocker born 1800 Milford. This 1820 James was a watchmaker and was born in either Milford or Hornsey. It is also possible that there was an Ebenezer.

Offline astral14

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Re: Can you search for house number and road in 1861?
« Reply #46 on: Saturday 01 January 11 13:01 GMT (UK) »
There are references to a Susanna Bedding born 1798 or 1801 in Bucklebury, Berkshire though! It seems likely therefore that the Crocker/ Bedding marriage is the William and Susannah one.

Offline nigelp

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Re: Can you search for house number and road in 1861?
« Reply #47 on: Saturday 01 January 11 13:42 GMT (UK) »
In that case, I would speculate that the James Crocker born 1820 c is the son of James Crocker born 1800 Milford. This 1820 James was a watchmaker and was born in either Milford or Hornsey. It is also possible that there was an Ebenezer.

The James and Ebenezer Crocker who appear in the 1841 Census are probably the sons of Robert Crocker, farmer.

There is the marriage of James Crocker, watchmaker, to Sarah Elizabeth Shergold on 15 Nov 1841 at St John's Paddington. Robert Crocker, farmer named as James' father. Witnesses are Matilda Crocker and Henry Nash.

James (without his wife) is with his parents in 1851 (see below).

There is also the marriage of Ebenezer Crocker, harness maker, to Jane Anne Sanders on 5 Nov 1848 at St Marylebone. Again, Robert Crocker, farmer named as the father. Witnesses are William Berridge? House and Sarah House.

Ebenezer, harness maker aged 25, and Jane Anne, waist coat maker aged 22, emigrate to Australia arriving at Port Phillip Bay on 28 Jun 1849. Ebenezer died in Williamstown, Victoria on 4 Mar 1894.

1851 Census
Hordle, Hampshire
HO107; Piece: 1666; Folio: 384; Page: 4
Robert Crocker Head Mar 61 Farmer 4 acres land Hants, Milford
Mary Crocker Wife Mar 66 Hants, Milford
James Crocker Son Mar 31 Watchmaker Hants, Milford
Alford Crocker Grandson 4 London, Whitechapel

There is a tree on Ancestry which shows William Henry Crocker as baptised in Milford on 30 Sep 1809 with Robert Radcliffe Crocker (baptised 28 Sep 1789, Milford according to the tree although familysearch has a date of 11 Oct 1789 at Pennington, Hampshire) and Mary Seir (baptised 18 Sep 1784, Milford) as his parents. A Henry Radcliffe Crocker (not the famous dermatologist) appears to be Robert Radcliffe Crocker's father.

Therefore, William Henry, James and Ebenezer Crocker appear to be brothers.

According to the tree on Ancestry, Robert and Mary had the following children baptised:

30 Sep 1809 - William Henry Crocker
28 Apr 1811 - Charles Crocker
21 Aug 1813 - Elizabeth Crocker
13 Jul 1815 - Emma Crocker
9 Jul 1817 - Ann Crocker
6 Sep 1819 - James Crocker
12 Dec 1821 - Ellen Crocker
18 Feb 1824 - Ebenezer Crocker
26 Mar 1826 - Philip Edward Crocker
6 Jun 1828 - Martha Crocker

What happened to the Charles Crocker baptised in 1811?

William Henry Crocker, the son, born 1837, seems to have become a cheesemonger and married a Mary Ann ?
Cheesemonger:
12 Argyle Street, West Ham, Essex
Death - Dec 1895 - West Ham 4a 103

He has at least 5 children: Amy Maryon; Susannah Frederica; Ernest Henry; Grace Violet and Beatrice Josephine.
Susanna married a William John G Chuck in 1900; Ernest Henry married Ethel Plummer and had Sydney R and Arthur S; Beatrice married Frank Wilberforce Varley and Grace married William James Humerston.

In his new marriage to Sarah Cornell, of the 4 children, I found 1 marriage of Mabel Radcliffe Crocker to Herbert Thomas Stonehewer in 1904. He was of 426 Upper Richmond Road East Sheen SRY. They had at least 1 child - Mabel Edna Stonehewer who died in 1996. She was born in 1905.

There have to be some descendants out there!!

William Henry Crocker (the son) was baptised at Holy Trinity Minories on 7 Aug 1836 and married Mary Ann Hodges at St Botolph without Bishopsgate on 10 Apr 1860.

Nigel
Essex - Burrell, Thorogood
Norfolk - Alcock, Bowen, Bowers, Breeze, Burton, Creamer, Hammond, Sparkes, Wakefield, Wiggett
North Devon - Burgess, Chalacombe, Collacott, Goss
Northamptonshire - George, Letts, Muscutt, Richardson
Somerset - Barber
Wiltshire - Brine, Burges, Carey, Gray, Lywood, Musselwhite, Perris, Read, Turner, Wilkins

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline nigelp

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Re: Can you search for house number and road in 1861?
« Reply #48 on: Saturday 01 January 11 16:38 GMT (UK) »
LOL - no, Susanna was dead by then but it seems rich, if what we surmise is correct, that he chose not to marry Susan but her neice and then embark upon a young family with her. Interestingly their middle name is 'Ratcliffe' or 'Radcliffe'. This could either be a reference to Ratcliffe Street or the district in that part of London or could be some kind of weird homage to Dr Henry Radcliffe Crocker, the famous Victorian dermatologist who treated cases of acne agumenta. Maybe they felt that the name confusion would help with upwardly mobile aspirations.
I am kind of impressed that this man was virile for so young and obviously altered his age to suit the occasion - he can't have looked his age! My father is now a fairly sprightly 86, so maybe it's in the genes, lol.

Re the watches/ clocks - what one gleans is that he was successful in business. Chronometer making was a skilled art and above that of normal clock and watchmakers. Such items would be very valuable today. If he worked for Sir John Bennett, who also had a mistress and a large second family, I gather, then he would have been good.
I must order some certificates - as you say, the Sarah Cornell/ William Crocker marriage one could be interesting!

See my previous post regarding the possible Radcliffe connection. The famous dematologist may be related!

The Robert Radcliffe Crocker who was baptised on 27 Apr 1840 at St James, Clerkenwell (son of William Henry Crocker and Susanna Bedding) is, therefore, named after William Henry's father.

Nigel
Essex - Burrell, Thorogood
Norfolk - Alcock, Bowen, Bowers, Breeze, Burton, Creamer, Hammond, Sparkes, Wakefield, Wiggett
North Devon - Burgess, Chalacombe, Collacott, Goss
Northamptonshire - George, Letts, Muscutt, Richardson
Somerset - Barber
Wiltshire - Brine, Burges, Carey, Gray, Lywood, Musselwhite, Perris, Read, Turner, Wilkins

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline astral14

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Re: Can you search for house number and road in 1861?
« Reply #49 on: Saturday 01 January 11 17:04 GMT (UK) »
Now that is brilliant and fascinating - actually I had a ? Robert and Mary Seir down as parents but did not remember where I had got that from. I did not know about the Radcliffe connection!

Offline astral14

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Re: Can you search for house number and road in 1861?
« Reply #50 on: Saturday 01 January 11 17:27 GMT (UK) »
The only thing that I have that does not quite fit, is the reference I copied onto paper for:
James Crocker b 1800 Milfordd Hampshire with wife, Sara E born 1806 Clerkenwell.
They have the following children:
James 1820 (watchmaker) born Milford or Hornsey - children Samuel and Mary A
Edward 1825 b Hornsey (watchmaker)
Alfred 1827 Whitechapel
Phlip 1829 Whitechapel
Martha 1831 Whitechapel
Samuel 1833 Hornsey
Walter 1835 Hornsey
Albert 1838 Hornsey
I don't know where I got this from. I wonder if this is another of Henry R Crocker's sons?

Re Charles born 1811, I wonder if this child died and WH used some of his name Samuel C Crocker b 1811 in the 1871 census where he appears with Susan...

Offline nigelp

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Re: Can you search for house number and road in 1861?
« Reply #51 on: Saturday 01 January 11 17:50 GMT (UK) »
The only thing that I have that does not quite fit, is the reference I copied onto paper for:
James Crocker b 1800 Milfordd Hampshire with wife, Sara E born 1806 Clerkenwell.
They have the following children:
James 1820 (watchmaker) born Milford or Hornsey - children Samuel and Mary A
Edward 1825 b Hornsey (watchmaker)
Alfred 1827 Whitechapel
Phlip 1829 Whitechapel
Martha 1831 Whitechapel
Samuel 1833 Hornsey
Walter 1835 Hornsey
Albert 1838 Hornsey
I don't know where I got this from. I wonder if this is another of Henry R Crocker's sons?

Re Charles born 1811, I wonder if this child died and WH used some of his name Samuel C Crocker b 1811 in the 1871 census where he appears with Susan...

It looks like the information is incorrectly recorded from the 1861 Census (RG9; Piece: 792; Folio: 44; Page: 79). The ages for James, Sarah and the children are as follows in 1861:

James Crocker 41 Hants, Milford
Sarah E Crocker 36 Middx, Clerkenwell
James Crocker 18 Middx, Hoxton
Edward Crocker 16
Alfred Crocker 14
Phillip Crocker 12
Martha Crocker 10
Samuel Crocker 8
Walter Crocker 6
Albert Crocker 3

Sarah Elizabeth Shergold was baptised at St James, Clerkenwell on 22 Jun 1824 (parents John and Jane).

I am wondering whether William Henry tried to hold himself out as his younger brother!!! ;D

Nigel
Essex - Burrell, Thorogood
Norfolk - Alcock, Bowen, Bowers, Breeze, Burton, Creamer, Hammond, Sparkes, Wakefield, Wiggett
North Devon - Burgess, Chalacombe, Collacott, Goss
Northamptonshire - George, Letts, Muscutt, Richardson
Somerset - Barber
Wiltshire - Brine, Burges, Carey, Gray, Lywood, Musselwhite, Perris, Read, Turner, Wilkins

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline astral14

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Re: Can you search for house number and road in 1861?
« Reply #52 on: Saturday 01 January 11 18:02 GMT (UK) »
Could be!!

Offline nigelp

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Re: Can you search for house number and road in 1861?
« Reply #53 on: Saturday 01 January 11 18:04 GMT (UK) »
Could be!!

Your ages are 20 years out. I would guess you were looking at the 1861 Census but recorded the details as if it was the 1841 Census.

Nigel
Essex - Burrell, Thorogood
Norfolk - Alcock, Bowen, Bowers, Breeze, Burton, Creamer, Hammond, Sparkes, Wakefield, Wiggett
North Devon - Burgess, Chalacombe, Collacott, Goss
Northamptonshire - George, Letts, Muscutt, Richardson
Somerset - Barber
Wiltshire - Brine, Burges, Carey, Gray, Lywood, Musselwhite, Perris, Read, Turner, Wilkins

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk