Author Topic: Actress/dramatist Gertrude L. Robins (abt. 1880-1917) - looking for birth date  (Read 14531 times)

Offline guvoko

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Hello! I am looking for some official document showing the birth date and / or birth place of the actress and dramatist Gertrude Louisa Robins (aka Gertrude Robins aka Mrs. Charles Dawson). When she married the artist Charles Edwin Dawson in 1906 (in Holborn / London), she was 26 years old. She died on December 24, 1917 in Shotter Mill, Surrey.

There is some probability that she is identical with Gertrude Louisa Robins, the cousin of my great-grandmother, born Feb 05, 1880 in Buckhurst Hill, Chigwell, Essex, England.

A lot of things fit, e.g., the  (approx.) year of birth, the name of both fathers (John Robins), the profession of both fathers (merchant), both mothers are German. The last trace of Gertrude Louisa Robins which was clearly my great-grandmother’s cousin which my co-researchers from the Dawson and Robins families and I found was the 1901 census. The first trace of the actress and dramatist we found is her marriage in 1906.  We all assumed we were dealing with ONE person and this is how we are showing her on our family trees on Rootsweb, Ancestry and Geneanet.
However, we do have some doubts, mainly because the actress and dramatist mentioned an Irish father in an interview. The father of my great-grandmothers's cousin was English and so were his ancestors several generations back. In "The Irish Abroad" from 1915 the author classified her as an Irish woman abroad which adds to our confusion.

We are looking for any kind of document with birth date / place information which can be clearly associated with the actress and dramatist: passport applications (she travelled at least to Italy), CV's at theaters, population registry offices etc.  Unfortunately I am not familiar with the corresponding authorities and archives in the UK.

The entries on Gertrude Louisa Robins on genealogy sites are from my co-researchers or from myself and might be incorrect.  There are also some mentions on the internet with wrong year of birth, e.g.: http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp67367/gertrude-robins-mrs-charles-dawson . I believe we exhausted all possibilities offered by Google etc.

The actress and dramatist lived in Naphill, Buckinghamshire (1910) and in London (1917). She does not appear in the 1911 census,  possibly she was abroad at that time. Here some extracts from an interview in "The Era" of February 1, 1913 which gives some information about her work: "My village comedy 'Pot-Luck' ... originally played by Buckinghamshire Players (a body of local amateurs which I organized), I afterwards produced at the Palace Theatre. ...Speaking of the provinces, there is, I think, more than a grain of truth in the adage: 'What Manchester thinks today London does tomorrow ', for it was in Cottonopolis, at Miss Horniman's Theatre, that my early plays were first produced. ... My one-act play 'Makeshifts' was presented before that clever play 'Hindle Wakes', at the Playhouse; ... it has now been played over a thousand times in Great Britain, Australia, and Canada, and is to be presented in America by Miss Horniman's company. ... "A few years ago I took Honors in Modern Languages at Oxford. My mother is German and my father Irish... Hence it came about that…  I was introduced to the late Wilson Barrett, who engaged me to play in his Repertoire Company on tour. After useful 'schooling' in the provinces and playing lead in Wilson Barrett's last play, 'Lucky Durham', I joined Mr. James Welch, and played in 'When Knights Were Bold' at Wyndham's. Subsequently I played lead with Mr. Granville Barker in his daring Anglo- Austrian 'Anatol' sketches at the Palace and the Little Theatre. I lately played Miss Irene Vanbrugh's part in ' Rosalind ' upon the occasion of the latter's Command performance at Sandringham; and, now, as the heroine of that merry and clever farce, ' Officer 666', at the Globe, I have my first experience of acting in an American production..."

Any suggestions are highly appreciated.

With kind regards, Gudrun (The Netherlands)
Mainly Germany. In the UK: Jonghaus, Younghouse and descendants. Actress and dramatist Gertrude (Louisa) Robins.

Offline Berlin-Bob

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Re: Actress/dramatist Gertrude L. Robins (abt. 1880-1917) - looking for birth date
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 14 December 10 21:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi Gudrun,

Welcome to Rootschat :) , glad you came over *


One of the problems there was that people looked on the internet and quoted some stuff which had been entered by you and your fellow researchers.  I notice you have now added a list of known sources to your topic there. - can you add that here too please, so we don't duplicate what you already know. Thanks,

Bob


* For the others:  Gudrun originally posted this query on a german forum, and I suggested she try her luck here.
http://forum.genealogy.net/forum/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=45104
Any UK Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Offline CaroleW

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Re: Actress/dramatist Gertrude L. Robins (abt. 1880-1917) - looking for birth date
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 14 December 10 21:40 GMT (UK) »
Hi and welcome to Rootschat

Gertrude L Robins aged 21 b Buckhurst is on the 1901 census occ assistant school mistress living in Peterborough Northamptonshire which suggests a different person given the diverse occupations

RG13 Piece 1463 Folio 23 Page 4
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline Hackstaple

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Re: Actress/dramatist Gertrude L. Robins (abt. 1880-1917) - looking for birth date
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 14 December 10 21:53 GMT (UK) »
The Gertrude born Buckhurst Hill 1880 appears on the 1881 census as Louisa Gertrude Robins.

It may be that on various documents she used her given names interchangeably at times.

Mind you on that census her mother is shown as Helen but on later returns as Helene. Her father is not a merchant but a hat and cap manufacturer.
Southern or Southan [Hereford , Monmouthshire & Glos], Jenkins, Meredith and Morgan [Monmouthshire and Glos.], Murrill, Damary, Damry, Ray, Lawrence [all Middx. & London], Nethway from Kenn or Yatton. Also Riley and Lyons in South Africa and Riley from St. Helena.
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Hackstaple

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Re: Actress/dramatist Gertrude L. Robins (abt. 1880-1917) - looking for birth date
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 14 December 10 22:00 GMT (UK) »
A John Robins b. Stepney about 1846 appears as a Chemist living with his sister Fanny Wales in Woodford, Essex in 1871. She has a daughter Fanny Gertrude so there may be a connection.

Again in 1861 we see Fanny, 23 and John 15, with widowed mother Sarah and another sister also Sarah in Walthamstow.

So, that connection is clear but we still don't know if there is another woman with the same name.
Southern or Southan [Hereford , Monmouthshire & Glos], Jenkins, Meredith and Morgan [Monmouthshire and Glos.], Murrill, Damary, Damry, Ray, Lawrence [all Middx. & London], Nethway from Kenn or Yatton. Also Riley and Lyons in South Africa and Riley from St. Helena.
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline guvoko

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Re: Actress/dramatist Gertrude L. Robins (abt. 1880-1917) - looking for birth date
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 14 December 10 22:02 GMT (UK) »
Hello! Thanks a lot, Bob,  Carole and Hackstaple! Carole, Hackstaple, yes, this is the 1901 census mentioning my grandmother's cousin. Her father was a hat and cap manufacturer at that time, but later he became a "commission agent" which is maybe not exactly a merchant but I believe close. Bob, I posted only a selection of links on the other forum, I will ad the same at the bottom of this contribution. What I am really looking for is not data published on the Internet on Gertrude because I am sure we exhausted  at least all non-pay sites. I am looking for information on / addresses of institutions and authorities I could write to go obtain more information. Specialized archives, anything where passport applications as far back as 1906-1917 could be stored, population registry office data (if those existed back then), a school where she could have obtained the Honors in Modern Languages at Oxford she is mentioning (it cannot be the university because at that time a university study was impossible for woman) etc.

Thanks again!

With kind regards,
Gudrun

...............
Some links on Gertrude (Louisa) Robins:

http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp67367/gertrude-robins-mrs-charles-dawson
http://www.archive.org/details/potluck00robi
http://www.archive.org/details/lovingaswedoothe00robiiala
Google books The Enchanted man
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1911/1911%20-%200109.html
http://www.onread.com/book/Loving-As-We-Do-And-Other-Plays-101503
http://www.archive.org/details/representativeo00goog

Moderator Comment: 'mended' some of the links, as they weren't working properly :)
Mainly Germany. In the UK: Jonghaus, Younghouse and descendants. Actress and dramatist Gertrude (Louisa) Robins.

Offline guvoko

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Re: Actress/dramatist Gertrude L. Robins (abt. 1880-1917) - looking for birth date
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 14 December 10 22:11 GMT (UK) »
@ Hackstaple: Yes, my great-grandmother's cousin changed the sequence of her given names. Regarding her mother, she was born as Helene which is the German version of Helen, she might just have pronounced it the English way when the census was taken. I noticed that the spelling of especially foreigner's names is not always very accurate. Regarding the other John Robins, I will keep an eye on him. But the funny thing is that there is that talk about an Irish connection...

All the best,
Gudrun
Mainly Germany. In the UK: Jonghaus, Younghouse and descendants. Actress and dramatist Gertrude (Louisa) Robins.

Offline Hackstaple

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Re: Actress/dramatist Gertrude L. Robins (abt. 1880-1917) - looking for birth date
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 14 December 10 22:13 GMT (UK) »
OK but we can trace John as far back as the 1851 census and he is still born Stepney and therfore not Irish. Even then his mother Sarah is shown as married but no husband in residence.
Southern or Southan [Hereford , Monmouthshire & Glos], Jenkins, Meredith and Morgan [Monmouthshire and Glos.], Murrill, Damary, Damry, Ray, Lawrence [all Middx. & London], Nethway from Kenn or Yatton. Also Riley and Lyons in South Africa and Riley from St. Helena.
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Hackstaple

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Re: Actress/dramatist Gertrude L. Robins (abt. 1880-1917) - looking for birth date
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 14 December 10 22:24 GMT (UK) »
Lady Margaret Hall - Somerville College, Oxford, was established in 1878.
Southern or Southan [Hereford , Monmouthshire & Glos], Jenkins, Meredith and Morgan [Monmouthshire and Glos.], Murrill, Damary, Damry, Ray, Lawrence [all Middx. & London], Nethway from Kenn or Yatton. Also Riley and Lyons in South Africa and Riley from St. Helena.
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk