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Author Topic: Surgeon John CATES  (Read 25072 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Surgeon John CATES
« Reply #54 on: Friday 10 December 10 16:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi Terry

NSW BDM online index, search deaths 1839 under Cates  :(
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm  V1839891 23A/1839 (I think Vol 23 would probably be for St Johns C of E and with burial at Parramatta) .    http://members.optushome.com.au/sab/churches/stjohncem.html
http://www.discoverparramatta.com/places/heritage_and_historic_sites/st._johns_cemetery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parramatta,_New_South_Wales

Re the names of the children who came to NSW in 1839, I think I was confusing myself shhhhhhhh  :-X  I think I was confusing George with Charles .... Shhhhhhhhh  ;)

Re the Irish marriage 05 Dec 1865 the Groom was WIDOWER and named as Charles Collier CATES.  The Bride was SINGLE and named as Annabell Marian Flood.   Groom's father was named as John CATES.  Bride's father named as Benjamin FLOOD.  The ceremony happened at Donnybrook, Dub, Ireland. 

Agh .... found the 1867 event.... it was for a baptism ... Phew .... a female with surname CATES  (given name not recorded) ... parents were named as Charles Collier CATES and Annabelle Marion FLOOD.  Ceremony on 11 Mar 1867 at Donnybrook...   So did Annabelle and Charles go together to NZ where he then married Annie Buchanan (overlooking the fact that Annabelle was still living ...  What happened to Annabelle or their child .... there are so many questions, and its so very very early here (not yet 4:00 am) ...

Cheers, JM (PS, I hope the archivist is able to help)
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Offline TerryD

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Re: Surgeon John CATES
« Reply #55 on: Friday 10 December 10 19:34 GMT (UK) »
Hi JM

Thanks again and I now know Humphrey died, although i am still very interested in his situation.
Lets hope the archivist can help because the index entries being
Birth V1838729 23A suggests 1838 birth
Death V1839891 23A
are very interesting and different from what the church records suggest
with the birth August 1839.
I still cant see why he wasnt born on board and registered as an amendment when they got to Sydney, christened and then died. But thats me just making the story up I suppose. It fits the number of master cates 2 or 3.

Thanks to you we now know that Charles and Annabel had a daughter in 1867 and thank goodness  :Dthere weren't two Charles Collier Cates, its getting confusing enough  ::)

With regard what he did to Annabel. I dont know the answer to that but suggest he left her, lost touch with her and then assumed or hoped she had died when he made his bigamous marraige.

I am now on the hunt for Annabel Cates.

Will let you know how i get on.

Terry

Looking for Dadds, Wheeler, Seymour, Hammond & Reynolds to name but a few.

Offline sparrett

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Re: Surgeon John CATES
« Reply #56 on: Friday 10 December 10 23:15 GMT (UK) »
This may be the birth Sarah Woodward, It is located in the right geographical are for the marriage to CHARLES which followed.

Reg10712 In 1869
 WOODWARD SARAH
 Father JAMES
 Mother ELIZABETH
At GOULBURN

EDIT
I have deleted a large section of this post because, after further research, I found it to be erroneous information. Apologies :(

Sue 

   
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Offline majm

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Re: Surgeon John CATES
« Reply #57 on: Saturday 11 December 10 03:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,

Re Charles Collier CATES, son of John Cates .... 
Charles details re his own place of birth and also his age should be detailed on any birth registration for his children born in NSW (of course it depends on the knowledge of the informant and the indexes do NOT include that level of detail) ....

So we have NOT YET found Charles Collier CATES earliest marriage .... and it could be anywheres ! Civil Registrations commenced in NSW 1856, BUT NSW marriage records took much much longer to get registered, and there's many from that era that have YET to be found on NSW civil registrations (or if there are missing lots of 'genie' info) .... These are of course 'findable' through the local parish records BUT ..... where each set of PRs are currently located .... 'that is the question'.  Also there's the transcriber errors that may creep in with surname such at Cates .... Gates/Catts/Cater/Cotts/Coter/Lates/Eates etc ... Hopefully that type of error did not develop around this Charles Collier Cates as there's likely to be three capitalised "C" in the one hand.

Fingers crossed  :)

Cheers,  JM   

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Offline majm

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Re: Surgeon John CATES
« Reply #58 on: Saturday 11 December 10 04:16 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,

Re William John CATES, son of John Cates, Surgeon

Do you think William could have married in NSW ?  There's a marriage in 1857 of a William J Cates to a Harriet ROSE registered in Sydney ref 293/1857 ...

and there's the 8 Nov 1833 baptism of William John, son of John and Elizabeth, he a Surgeon, they of 66 Margaret St at St Marylebone, Westminster.  William born 8 April 1833.

If this is your William,  ;D then when did he return to NSW ...... and was Charles Collier Cates with him ....  :D


Cheers,  JM
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Offline majm

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Re: Surgeon John CATES
« Reply #59 on: Saturday 11 December 10 04:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi Terry,

Do you have the following  ?

Baptisms at St Marylebone :
Elizabeth Ann CATES, born 29 March 1832 baptised 26 June 1832, to John and Elizabeth Cates of 60 Margaret St, he a Surgeon
Henry John CATES, born 11 Sept 1834, baptised 8 Oct 1834 to John and Elizabeth of 66 Margaret St, he a Surgeon

Cheers,  JM (trying to find Charles Collier C  ;D )
 

The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
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All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline majm

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Re: Surgeon John CATES
« Reply #60 on: Saturday 11 December 10 07:55 GMT (UK) »
Hi,   :)  Now this is confusing  ;D  ;D 
There's Charles Augustus Cates WWI record as enlisting in Aust, with his n o k being his married sister Elizabeth Amy RICHARDSON, stating he was born Dunedin NZ, but it turns out he was born in Queensland) WELL here's a lad who claims to have been born in Qld, when he enlisted in NZ but he WERE NOT BORN IN QLD .... 

The New Zealand Archives has a Charles CATES born Tambo Qld 3 Aug 1893 (that's what the NZ file has) enlisted for WWI on 18 August 1914 and served at Gallipoli.  His next of kin recorded as Mr R Cates, Auckland NZ. 
http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/SimpleSearchResults.do
CATES, Charles - WW1 3/162a - Army   (pdf file has 33 pages, and is abt 7 meg)

I note that the only QLD birth on the Qld BDM online index with the surname CATES between 1880 and 1900 is Charles Augustus CATES .... so after checking again, I confirm that Charles Augustus CATES, son of Charles Collier CATES and Sarah Woodward was registered with the birthdate of 14 November 1890.   And I have not found a Qld birth for the Charles Cates who enlisted in NZ. 


Cheers,  :D  :D  JM

 
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Offline Aussie1947

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Re: Surgeon John CATES
« Reply #61 on: Saturday 11 December 10 09:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

A snippet about a Charles Collier Cates in an 1874 NZ newspaper.

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=TS18731127.2.2.1&srpos=2&e=-------10--1----0charles+collier+cates--


It indicates that Charles was already married with a wife in England when he married Miss Buchanan in NZ in 1873.


Gerry

Offline alison2763

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Re: Surgeon John CATES
« Reply #62 on: Saturday 11 December 10 10:37 GMT (UK) »
Hello all,
Great work !
From Victoria:
Charles Collier CATES { b Sydney} married Margaret Mary RYAN { b Tipperary} 1879 # 3735
Can't see any children

Margaret Mary Alouius CATE d 1927 aged 77 Northcote-  William RYAN and Mary O'BRIEN # 7141

Electoral Roll
1924 :
Margaret Mary CATES 11 Lara St South Yarra- Invalid

No sign of Charles after the marriage  :D
Regards
Alison
Blundell- Sussex - Newcastle
Kiefel- Prussia- South Australia
Fiegert-Prussia- South Australia
Retford/Deptford-Hampshire- NSW
Keetley-Hathern Leicestershire-New Zealand
Other names: Collis, Williams,Courage, Andrew, Ransom, Gore.
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