Herbert Raven

[pevenseyranger]

4 Larkdale Terrace, Sherwood , in the County Town of Nottingham

Hope this helps !!!!!!

[Evie]

Theres an Emma Elizabeth Raven marrying in September 1884 Nottingham to a Brown or Beresford, and a widowed Emma Brown, visitor at Church Drive, Basford, Nottinghamshire in 1891 RG12/2670 Folio 102 Page 3, no sign of any children though 

What is going on with this family. If Emma did marry Theophilus William Brown he didn't die until 1895

Sorry the address didn't seem to help either.

[pevenseyranger]

Are we to assume now that Herbert Barnes Raven 1878 is the same Herbert Raven in the 1901 census  ? as both have a mother named Emma Raven .

The Herbert Raven in the 1911 census is also a possibility of being the same person , he is also in prison on census night 1911 . Could there be a date of birth with his prison records ? if so this would be a pointer as to whether we are dealing with the same Herbert Raven

Luke

[Evie]

Ok Luke

Had another look at service records.

I think you are correct and that there is only one Herbert (Barnes) Raven. I think. I also feel if you don't mind me saying that he was a compulsive fibber.


In the earlier service records there was a Herbert Raven and a Herbert Barnes Raven.

Herbert Barnes Raven joined 1898, Scottish Rifles at Hamilton, having been in 3 Lincolnshire Rgt and was discharged Aldershot 1899. Intended place of stay 22, Bell Street. Mother A Raven, Market Square.

Herbert Raven (I think he has now dropped the Barnes) joined again in 1900 the YLI (No 6720) born St Saviours and discharged Nov 1901, Limerick. Records indicate he was in prison from 1. 3. 1901 for 70 days. Amongst other things, improper enlistment.Both times these Herberts were discharged as being medically unfit. Intended place of stay 11 Market Square.

What made me think that these two could possibly be the same was that Herbert Raven YLI had 3 ink marks L forearm and the Herbert Raven who on WW1 record was married to Sarah Ann Burton had tattoo L arm dots.

Hoping I have made sense and not confused you further.

Evie

[Evie]

And more

On 6th April 1915 joined Territorial address Thoresby St Sneinton nok mother Elizabeth Thomas 6 Market Square. Discharged 6 May 1915 not likely to be an efficient soldier - no previous army service.

In Oct 1915 joined army again having been in Scottish regiment married to Sarah Ann Burton, discharged Jan 1916 for desertion.

Now this one was confusing me but it looks like the same guy.

Joined May 1917 address Salford married to Annie Elizabeth Burnham Apr 7th 1917 said he had been discharged from 2nd Bat YLI due to being medically unfit and gives his previous number as 6720 went AWOL July 1917.

Had a look at the deaths and there is a Sarah A Raven 1917, Nottingham aged 34, whether or not she is yours I am not sure.

Evie

[pevenseyranger]

Evie

You have done very well indeed , the link with the tattoos is a good one .
Herbert Raven seems very keen to join up to the Army , i wonder why he is unfit to serve?
i wonder if the service records state how tall he is as that would be anther fact to go on .

I have been wondering who his dad might be and trying to get a connection from some where and came up with this

1, Mother - Emma Raven - Jobs , Sales Women 1878, Waitress  ( INN ) 1881 census

2, Father not know on birth certificate, but has been given the middle name Barnes  which could well be a clue. On Herbert's marrage to Sarah Ann Burton he states that his father is John Raven , deceased Publican. I'm guessing it could be John Barnes, so i searched for a John Barnes in the 1881 census who was a publican and found one , John Barnes 1835 who ran a pub called Lord Nelson INN. He had a son called also John Barnes but he is a butcher .

Luke

[Evie]

Mmm you could be onto something there Luke. Will have a look later. To answer your question about height etc.

Early records

Herbert Raven

Carter
5' 4'' chest 33-34.5'' eyes grey, hair brown
Born Notingham, Notts

Herbert Barnes Raven

Labourer
5' 3.5'' chest 32-34.5'' eyes blue, hair light brown
Born [H[erdington, Birmingham

Half way through records eyes brown, hair brown I think possibly error

When I can I will try and post the two signatures and the same for WW1

[Evie]

WW1

Living Aston and married to Sarah

Carter

5' 5.5'' chest 34'' with expansion of 2'' although on medical form has 5' 3.5'' so I could have misread the first as the 5 and 3 look similar
Born Nottingham

Can't seem to find eyes and hair

Living Salford married to Annie

Gen Labourer

5' 3.5'' chest 33'' with 3'' expansion

Eyes blue, hair brown

Records seem to say medically unfit but can find no evidence as to why this was, all I can seem to see on records is desertion, maybe he was slightly mentally unstable

Strange that Birmingham/Aston is mentioned in his earlier records and now living there in the WW1 records. Maybe some connection?

[Evie]

Luke, all 4 signatures on this thread

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=501930.new#new