Lady Ann of Clontarf?

[MonicaL]

Problem is there is no record for a birth for this Jessie to this couple, John and Margaret that we have in Forfar, that I could find on Scotlands People - I've listed the children that show on SP and IGI and they seem to stop at 1823. Jessie and Walter's entries are not showing that I can find.

Worries me for this family group that we have a potential 22 yr old Jessie Sutherland b. Forfar showing in the 1851 census in Scotland....

Monica

[Pastmagic]

Yes, Monica!  This raises the other possibility is that the John, being an army officer, was not Scottish at all, but just happened to be stationed or visiting Scotland with his wife when Jessie was born. and stationed in Dublin when she married the Irishman. That would mean a search in the public record office in Kew. And again, John Sutherland is a fairly common name.....but plenty of them in Ireland and England  Remember I found a Sutherland and a Burke family on the same street in Dublin in the right period? PM

Going on that theory:
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/bc9a490525996
Area - DUBLIN (COI) , Parish/Church/Congregation - ST. PAUL

Baptism of JOHN SUTHERLAND of N/R on 19 June 1825 Parents John and Margaret. can't remember where St. Pauls parish is.

There is a John married to a Mary as well, who have several children, but John Married to Margaret is a better fit.

[hallmark]

Thanks for pics Joe, glad to see you are still healthy!!   
 

[shanew147]

St. Paul's CofI was (is?) on north King Street, just off Blackhall Place.



Shane

[Joseph L. Oliver]

PM and Monica:

Yes, Monica!  This raises the other possibility is that the John, being an army officer, was not Scottish at all,

I'm not exactly sure which John PM is referring to here.  Man am I confused.  But, I just want to repeat:  Jessie Burke ne Sutherland reports in the 1880 Census that her mother and father were both born in Scotland.  James says his parents were both born in Ireland.

Joe

[hallmark]

That would be John Sunderland, army officer, father of Jessie

[Pastmagic]

Joe, I did not know that Jessie gave her father's birthplace as Scotland. What
I am suggesting is that as an Army officer, he could have been posted to Dublin or elsewhere, and Jessie could have been with him, which would explain a lack of Census records in the UK.

I am looking at misc. records for any suitable Capt. John Sutherlands of the time - will let you know how I get on. PM

[Joseph L. Oliver]

Hello PM, Shane, Hallmark, Monica, etc.:

It has been a long, long time since I was last on Rootschat.  Almost a year.  Hope you are all well and solving lots of mysteries.

Well, great news:  My cousin visited our aunt a few months back, and she finally sent me photos of the Lady Anne portrait and the remaining 2 (of 3) silhouettes that had long ago been contained in the frame.  The portrait and the silhouettes are beautiful, and the silhouettes are incredibly delicate.  Incredible to believe that they survive.

The silhouette pair and the painting were framed by my aunt.  Remember that when my grandmother had the painting reframed in 1946 or so, the three silhouettes fell out from the backing.  The single silhouette is the one I posted last year.  It seems so completely different in style and detail than the other two.

So, if there is anything that can be told by the portrait or the silhouettes, please let me know 


Thanks,

Joe O.

[Joseph L. Oliver]

Hello again:

I'd like to clarify what sort of advice I'd like to get regarding these images. 

Basically, I'm wondering if there's anyone on the forum who might have some expertise regarding portraits of "landed gentry" from the era of Lady Anne.  For instance, I would ask such an expert if it seems possible that this portrait looks as if it was made between 1782 and 1753?  Can it be discerned to be Iris or Scottish?  Can anything be told from the dress, hair, background, etc.

Is there anyone who could look at these silhouettes and tell anything from them?

If there's no on on the forum with such skills, could anyone recommend someone outside of the forum I could approach?

Thanks,

Joe