Lady Ann of Clontarf?

[Joseph L. Oliver]

 

PM and Hallmark, you'll understand if I say that if ever there was an appropriate time to invoke Monty Python, this is it:

MY BRAIN HURTS!

At this point, things are so beyond my comprehension, like trying to study a King James Bible being swatted back and forth by a couple of tennis pros.  Oye, oye, oye.....

Can't we just find out the names of the wives of John Burke and John Sutherland, find the parents of those two couples, then find their parents (lets see, that would be 16 people, right?), and among them find a Lady Anne associated with Clontarf, and be done with it?

Nah.

The little that I can fathom is fascinating.

I recall a Mary Ross listed in Dublin in that Thom's Directory, for what it's worth.

And regarding the question "Is it possible that Jessies family were Irish, and she was just born in scotland because her father was in the Army? There are a lot of Sutherlands
on irishgeneology."

No.  Jessie reported in the 1880 US Census that she and her parents were born in Scotland.

Wills, huh?  Well, I'll ask my aunt if she knows of any wills from her grandparents.  Otherwise, I'm not sure.  I have checked an online source for wills in Cincinnati a couple of times for James F. Burke, but nothing struck me as being connected.  I'm sure I could find more if I went to Cincy.

Gotta turn in.  I am truly humbled and appreciative of the scholarship behind your posts.

Regards,

Joe O 

[Pastmagic]

Hi Joe

This is all because a bunch of idiots burned all the censuses before 1901 by accident in Ireland...and because civil registration did not start until the mid 1800's. So no where to look them up except other sources. Of which, if you are trying to find anyone with a title, are many, obscure, scattered in various repositories around the city, and not often digitalised.

Despite all this, there are lots of people around who have managed to track em back!

Try emailing the Cof I address, as that is a start!

Also if you can see if there is any more detail in the stories of your Mum and Aunts...

One thought...What was James occupation in America?

PM

[hallmark]

I wonder if the consent of  Guardians meant she was not 21? .....   Record says of Full Age!



Ms. Ross and Edward continue elusive....PM

I make it out as Jane Rose, so does irishgenealogy on one record, and I reckon she's one of the Roses of Mt Temple Estate whose lands ran to Killester, as did the main avenue of St Anne's at that time.


Joe, if you look at the record on wildcard link I posted, you can see how basic earlier records were esp if you compare it with the Clontarf one!


I have checked an online source for wills in Cincinnati a couple of times for James F. Burke, but nothing struck me as being connected... that's a good thing in a way, it could be in King's Inn, Dublin!

We need a Guinness or two.....    or three  

[hallmark]

This is all because a bunch of idiots burned all the censuses before 1901 by accident in Ireland

Not true, they were pulped and recycled due to paper shortage, then later records were burnt when in safe keeping in the Customs House in 1916

[Pastmagic]

Right as Usual..

[Joseph L. Oliver]

a bunch of idiots burned all the censuses before 1901 by accident in Ireland

Ouch!  That hurts.

The best I can glean about James' first twenty years in Cincinnati from the skimpy data I have from directories is that he was a laborer.  After his grand daughter was born, from 1877 to 1887, James F. is shown as a ticket collector on one of Cincinnati's inclined railroads:  strange railcars that allowed folks to go up and down the steep hills of Cincinnati.

And regarding "Ross/Rose".  Yes, Rose it is.

Oh, I'm tired.  Must retire.

Thanks

Joe

[Pastmagic]

Hi Joe and Hallmark,

The old brain went into typo mode last night on this one. I knew it was Rose, sorry folks! Joe that is very interesting about Labourer and ticket Collector - its such a big jump from having a father styled "Gentleman" on the Cert.
I was just wondering, given the 1850 date, if there was some kind of family finnancial crash soon after the marriage that caused them to leave. Forgive me for asking if it is here already, but do you have a  precise date of arrival in the US for them?

PM
Representative Church Body Library

Clontarf Parish Registers of Baptisms (from 1808 to 1914), Marriages (from 1812 to 1914) and Burials (from 1812 to 1875).
Clontarf Parish Minute Books from 1815.

So if all the available records are on line, if they were long term residents, other family members should have appeared, as you say, Hallmark. Wonder if there is anything in the Minute Books re Guardians?

[shanew147]

from History of Irish census records  (National Archives)

'The original census returns for 1861 and 1871 were destroyed shortly after the censuses were taken. Those for 1881 and 1891 were pulped during the First World War, probably because of the paper shortage. The returns for 1821, 1831, 1841 and 1851 were, apart from a few survivals, notably for a few counties for 1821 and 1831, destroyed in 1922 in the fire at the Public Record Office (Four Courts) at the beginning of the Civil War.'

The 1861 and 1871 returns were destroyed once the required statistics had been extracted from them.


Shane

[hallmark]

Sorry, 1922 is correct!

Just thinking, the eldest son normally inherited, so if he wasn't the eldest he may have got nothing or a "token" amount, just a thought..