Merchant Navy Apprenticeship/Sinking/Ship route records

[edalmun]

Hello,

I'm looking for my relative Alfred Thomas Munt who was born in 1828 in Lambeth, Surrey. He became a marine engineer and was part of the merchant navy. I know he sailed on the 'Patras' number 28061 in 1861 as I have found him on the census as the '2nd engineer'.  I would like to find out more about his apprenticeship and about the Patras e.g. where it would have sailed. I know it was a 179 ton steamer but I don't know what it would have carried. Any ideas or places to loo would be great. Unfortunately I'm unable to travel to the National archive, but if that's the only place the records are I could ask someone to look it up for me.

Also Alfred is at home with his wife and two children in 1871, but by the 1881 census his wife is widowed. Family story says he died at sea, but I am aware he may have just deserted. How would I start trying to find out what happened, as I don't know what ship he would have been on at this time to look for sinkings.

Basically any help you can give me on finding out more, preferably online!!

Thank you ever so much,
Elissa

[jorose]

http://www.nytimes.com/1862/06/08/news/charleston-port-royal-capture-three-rebel-schooners-national-forces-gradually.html
 interesting!

Unfortunately Merchant Navy records are not easy, have a read through these:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/merchant-seamen-logbooks-crewlists-after-1861.htm
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/merchant-shipping-crewlists-agreements-1747-1860.htm
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/merchant-seamen-registers-1835-1857.htm

For the apprenticeships:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/apprenticeship-records.htm

There are indexes of marine deaths, which he might be on if he died on a British ship, at sea. Can you narrow the period when he might have died down any? (I guess there were no kids born between the 1871 and 1881 censuses?)

[edalmun]

That newspaper article is very interesting!! Thank you so mcuh for that!

I'll have a read through those research guides. I fear I don't know enough about him to discover much more but it's worth a go.

Unfortunately there were no children born within those years. I'm trying to think what else I could use to prove he was still alive. Maybe electoral rolls - would seamen have been on those?

Thanks again!
Elissa

[jorose]

The requirements for voting at the time would have been governed by the 1867 Reform Act:

The 1867 Reform Act gave the vote to every male adult householder living in a borough constituency. Male lodgers paying £10 for unfurnished rooms were also granted the vote. This gave the vote to about 1,500,000 men.

So the answer is "maybe". Electoral rolls are generally indexed by address though so if they moved around, not very convenient.

I can look through the marine death indexes later for you if you don't have access, it's just that they're yearly so it would have helped to be able to narrow it down a little.

[edalmun]

The only addresses I have for them are from the census and are different, so I think finding him on the electorol rolls is going to be impossible.

Thank you ever so much for having a look for me, I'm sorry I can't narrow it down for you.

Thank you ever so much,
Elissa

[jorose]

GRO Marine Deaths:
Year: 1879
Alfred Munt, aged 46, ship Polam, page 119

This is the only entry with surname Munt from 1871 to 1881.
(these certificates can be ordered from the GRO)

[edalmun]

Thank you ever so much!! That is very helpful, thank you for taking the time to look that up. I'll order and see what light it can shed on the situation.

Thanks again,

Elissa

[ninja_zxr]

aldoushughes - did you find out much at the patras. you see i'm also researching this ship as my partner's ancestor was on that boat to according to the 1861 census too.

i'm going to the national martime musem tomorrow to see what i can find about this ship. i'll let you know what i find if you are interested?

jorose - could you search the gro marine death index for me too. i'm trying to find details of a william cullen who died during 1865. I know the because of a child's birth cert. he is listed as deceased on the cert and the birth was registered early jan 1866. many thanks

[edalmun]

ninja_zxr,

I haven't been able to find out that much about the Patras, other than it's official number was 28061, it was an iron cargo vessel with a steam engine. Apparently it was first owned by Greek & Oriental Steam Navigation Co, London. It first sailed in October 1859. All this info came from www.teesbuiltships.co.uk/richardsonduck/patras1859

I emailed the National Maritime Museum and they looked for my Alfred Munt in the log books. Apparently they have copies of 8 booklets of Patras voyages in 61/62. At the time of the census they were on a voyage to Stettin in Poland. Any information you could find would be brilliant, I'd love to know more about the ship and Alfred Munt. He only stayed on the ship till the end of December 1861, but I believe it carried on sailing so your relative is probably still there.

Elissa