Huguenot Ancestor - Help finding baptism

[richarde1979]

There is a very interesting entry in the French Hospital London records

They had an application from one Thomas Spencer in February 1906. He was a Silk Weaver, born in Bethnal Green at 11 Squirries Street on Nov 9 1832 (baptised at St Leonards Shoreditch 9 Dec 1832) to Thomas Spencer and Susannah Pashley. He claimed his right to reside in the Hospital through his mothers French Huguenot descent Pashley/Cordon. Both his mother and father were born in the East End. His father Thomas Spencer was born 1802, to Thomas and Mary Spencer, and baptised at St Leonards Shoreditch on 29 Sep 1802.

More importantly he provided both his parents marriage certificate and his paternal grandparents.

20 Feb 1798 Thomas Spencer & Mary Shelton, St. James' Westminster
2nd Jany 1832 Thomas Spencer & Susannah Pashley, St. James, Westminster

So despite both families living in Shoreditch, as silk weavers, they were trapsing over to St James in the West of the city to marry. The reason for this I am not sure, though there surely must have been one.

Is it not possible this mans father was a brother to your Charlotte?

I think this is clear evidence the Spencers though were English and not French, or he would have claimed decent from his father not his mother.

I think there is a strong case to be made that the Thomas Spencer who married Mary Shelton, 1798, is a brother of the David Spencer I researched and also originally of Essex. Not only are they living in same parish following same trade, but the petition to the French hospital also mentions the applicants own wife, an Eliza Diggins. David Spencers wife Mary Spiers, had a sister Lydia Spiers. Her son James Houghton married into the Diggins family too. (The Houghtons and Diggins were both also native English Silk Weaving families based in Shoreditch back to at least early 1700's)

[rla10]

That's very interesting. Charlotte was born in 1807/8 so only a difference of 10 years or so, so definitely a possibility of being siblings. I found a lot of her siblings so will have a look. Thomas and Mary married in 1799 so there's a possbility.

What interests me more though is the Houghton connection. I have Elizabeth Houghton as marrying William Bridges at St Mathew Bethnal Green in 1757(the grandparents of William Bridges who married Charlotte Spencer) The three generations of Bridges' from William (husband of Charlotte) to his grandfather (husband of Elizabeth Houghton) were silk weavers, or listed as just weavers. I'm sure there must be a connection here.

[richarde1979]

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/topics.religious.huguenots.huguenots-walloons-eur/1555.1.1/mb.ashx

Hi, just found this thread, which I'm assuming is likely also you. You do have them down as probable siblings there. I'd say then that the marriage in Cripplegate is likely to be a different couple. In fact that explains why both Charlotte and her brother married at St James Westminster, their shared parents Thomas Spencer and Mary Shelton did! However why they originally chose to when they lived in Shoreditch is more of a mystery. Perhaps even further back Mary Sheltons family was originally from that parish.

The Houghton family were English silk weavers. I have traced them back to a Robert Houghton who was living in Shoreditch at least as far back as 1720. The infamous Kray brothers of Bethnal Green are decendants of theirs through their grandmother a Houghton. Also Derek Houghton who is a distant cousin of the twins and recently wrote a book on Bethnal Green.

[rla10]

Wow, so it is likely that Mary Shelton is the lady I'm looking for. Do you think that my Elizabeth Houghton is related to the Houghtons you mentioned? I think in Silk Weaving family in Bethnal Green, there can only be so many Houghtons. So that would mean I'm distantly related to the Kray Twins...fantastic...

[rla10]

Oh and yes, that thread was me.

[richarde1979]

I have an Elizabeth Houghton born 1734  Bethnal Green to Robert Houghton and Elizabeth Davies. Likely to be the one who married William Bridges 1757 at St Matthews. I made a mistake in previous posts the Houghtons were indeed originally settled in Bethnal Green, they moved into Shoreditch around 1780, then back into Bethnal green around 1830. Her brother Robert Houghton 1736, had a son Joseph Houghton 1772, and he married Lydia Spiers, S in Law of David Spencer. Their Eldest son JosephHoughton 1801 married his 1st cousin Mary Ann Spencer, and is the ancestor of the author Derek. Their younger son James Houghton 1811 (a twin) maried Mary Diggins, and is the ancestor of the Kray Twins.

[rla10]

I think the Elizabeth Houghton you have born in 1734 is the same as I have. Well, I can't say I'm overwhelmed with joy to know I'm related, albeit very distantly, to the Kray Twins. So, is it quite safe to say that none of those I thought are of Huguenot descent?

[richarde1979]

Very distantly so. Mind you by all accounts the Houghtons were the better side of their blood, their great grandfather Thomas Houghton, was a very respectable factory manager, who felt his daughter had married beneath herself with the twins grandfather and wouldn't have his son in law in the house...made him sleep in the stables with the horses!

I would say fairly safe to say the Spencers were not Huguenot no. Likewise the Houghtons, though they married into Huguenot families (Robert Houghtons wife Elizabeth Davies was Briefly married to a Frenchman, Bauzine before being widowed).

As I said though, I would not rule out the stories you have heard of Huguenot links for the Simons. There certainly were Huguenot silk weaving Simons in the East End.

[rla10]

What a colourful character!

Yes, I think the Simons will be my next lot to investigate. Thank you so much for all your help Richard, and others on this thread. You've helped me immeasurably.