Kings Norton or Moseley

[Trees]

Please can anyone check the Kings Norton and or Moseley registers for the baptism of
William HOLYOAKE(many variants known) and or Thomas HOLYOAK about 1820
possible parents Abraham and Susannah
Sorry its so vague but I have found an 1851 census for a William from Kings Norton and patron submitted baptism for Thomas and I believe there are trees on An...ry for a William Thomas and a baptism for a Caroline to this couple in Moseley
Many thanks
Trees

[trish1120]

Hi Trees,
I dont have access to Parish Records and hopefully someone else does

All info Familysearch Pilot;
CAROLINE Hollyoak, Christened/Baptised 10 June 1827, Kings-Norton, Worcs
Parents ABRAHAM and SUSANNAH
IGI has the Christening 10 June 1827, St Mary, Moseley by Birmingham, Worcs

Now they may have Married Warwickshire;
Abraham HOLYOAKE
Susannah PARKES, 27 August 1818, Aston Juxta, Birmingham, Warwickshire

I cant find Thomas/Williams Christenings with my resources but in 1851 Thomas born c 1823 Kings Norton is with Mother Susannah.
I will post as transcribed;

1851 Census
?wick St Bordesley
Aston, Warwickshire
HO107/2060/313/35
Susanet HOLYOAKE, 62, Head, Widow, born Kings Norton, Worcs
THOS Holyoake, 28, Son, Unm, Ag Lab, born Kings Norton, Worcs

1851 Census as you said WILLIAM Holyoake born c 1821 is with Wife Eliza and Family;
HO107/2024/588/36

1841 Census
Kings Norton, Worcs
HO107/1197/21/Kings Norton
Abraham HOLYOAKE, 50
Susannah, 40
Thomas, 20
Caroline, 14

There is something strange on some Family Trees
Back soon.

[trish1120]

One Tree has WILLIAM Thomas Holyoake marrying Eliza ROUND, with his Parents as Abraham/Susannah;

Marriage is on FreeBMD December 1844, Dudley, 18 387, as William HOLLYOAK.
On the same page is Elizabeth ROUND

Familysearch Pilot;
Marriage, 25 Dec 1844, Rowley Regis, Stafford
William HOLLYOAK, Father THOMAS
Eliza ROUND, Father JOHN
Both Single

So maybe people havent been buying Certs!

[Trees]

Many thanks Trish I think there must be a William and a Thomas but were they both Susannah's sons I think I need to look further these Holyoaks are driving us mad just now so many tantalising near misses that just wont connect up and the Mormon family so well researched and documented but all leaving my direct Abraham off their trees most odd.
I desperately need to see the Kings Norton Yardley and Mosely registers and possibly Northfield too 
Trees

[trish1120]

Can anyone please help Trees?

[Trees]

O dear this is strange I cant find a suitable William father Thomas( the only one I have is born 1722 so it isn't him)
Most of my research on this family was done a long time ago(1993 infact) but recent events have lead to finding a new interest and reopening the search.
the Abraham(1793) who married Susannah Parkes is son of Isaac and nephew of my Abraham who married Lydia Pearcy. I am sure of their decedents and have copies of baptisms and marriages of the earlier ones and certificates of later ones
Isaac's line  has the Mormon interest with some very interesting stories available on line.
I have also found the social reformer George Jacob HOLYOAK was contemporary with my Abraham and from the same area Is it just a coincidence that we have all these old testament names with out the family connecting up?
Now My Abraham was baptised
11 May 1761 Kings Norton son Thomas & Sarah ( seen in the register by my aunt and a photo copy sent to me)
In the same register a Thomas and Mary had 8 children baptised 1752-1769
My Abraham fits in well with no clashes. There is no other sight of a Thomas and Sarah either baptisms Marriage or death. On the same day a second child was baptised to a different Sarah we have accepted it most likely a clerical error and Abraham was son of Thomas ans Mary Palmer and have traced their trees back
Among Thomas and Mary's children is Isaac the father of Abraham (1793)  and  a Thomas in 1759 now was he the father of the William who married Eliza ROUND in 1844 he would appear too old 
As you can see I have a great deal of work to do with this line
Thanks for listening I'd love to hear your thoughts on it all
A very puzzled Trees

[davidpatten1954]

I have a postcard dated 1911 sent by 'C.H.' of The Beehive, Wilton Street, Lozells, Birmingham to 'Mrs Holyoake' at Church Bank, Betley, Nr Crewe.

Not easy to resolve who these characters were, but suspect it ties into:

Arthur Edward Holyoake b. 1878 B'ham + wife Caroline Elizabeth nee Jones.

Arthur b. 1878 was the s/o Abraham Holyoake occ. (1881 & 1891 Census) 'leather cutter' b. B'ham or Dudley 11.10.1850 - d. Aston 1922 & Elizabeth Glover nee Snow 1853 - 1896 who had m. Kings Norton Q3 1873.

Arthur's siblings were:

Gertrude b. 1876
Minnie b. 1880
May Louise b. 1882
James Frederick b. 1884
Albert b. 1892.

Does this help?  Let me know.  Thanks, David

[Trees]

ooh interesting the nearest Abraham I have so far is one born 1853 but he was a sailor(unusual for some one born in B'ham, married to a Sarah no known children
I'll take a look
Wasn't the Beehive a shop I vaguely remember from child hood the Beehive and The House that Jack Built being mentioned by mum?(She grew up in Aston)
Trees

ho no it was a pub just G...led it must have been a land mark then mum was no tippler

[davidpatten1954]

Oh good!  Here are my rough notes.  David

Arthur Edward Holyoake b. Q3 1878 B'ham

m. Q4 1906 Birmingham

Caroline Elizabeth Jones b. 1881 B'ham

1911 Census 2 Brompton Place Icknield Street

HOLYOAKE, Arthur Edward   Head   Married
4 years   M   34   1877   House Painter Paperhanger Etc   Birmingham
HOLYOAKE, Caroline Elizabeth   Wife   Married
4 years   F   30   1881      Birmingham
HOLYOAKE, Arthur James   Son      
M   3   1908      Birmingham
HOLYOAKE, Frank   Son      
M   1   1910      Birmingham


s/o Abraham Holyoake occ. (1881) leather cutter b. B'ham 11.10.1850 - d. Aston 1922 & Elizabeth Glover nee Snow 1853 - 1896 m. Kings Norton Q3 1873

siblings

Gertrude Emma Holyoake
1876 – 1924 m. Q3 1896 Aston Edward Tuffield occ. brassfounder child: Nellie b. 1899

Minnie Elizabeth Holyoake
1880 –

May Louise Holyoake
1882 –

James Frederick Holyoake m. Ada Florence Rowe 1887 - 1964
1884 – 1960

Frank Holyoake
1888 –

Albert Victor Holyoake
1892 –


1891 Census 411 Bolton Road Aston Deritend

Abrham Holyoak age 40 occ. leather cutter b. Dudley
Elizabeth Holyoak age 37 b. Coventry
Gertrude Emma Holyoake
Arthur E. Holyoake occ. cabinet brass work b. B'ham
Minnie
May L.
James
Frank


For 1881 Census at 19 Ct 4 House Irving Street


Possible Death Dec 1937   (90%)
Hollioake    Abraham C    86    Birmingham    6d   215