Author Topic: Wrong baptism all along.  (Read 21738 times)

Offline Auber

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Re: Wrong baptism all along.
« Reply #54 on: Sunday 07 November 10 22:50 GMT (UK) »
ok, thanks for the info. In terms of finding this Samuel Obey/Auber is there any school records that can be checked? I notice there were 4 charity schools in existance around that time? Does anyone have a register? this may have parent info?

Cheers

Paul

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Wrong baptism all along.
« Reply #55 on: Monday 08 November 10 04:12 GMT (UK) »
Ben, Had a look at the Old Bailey and 'London Lives' could not find anything for Mary Obey either unfortunately. Whether any other records for prisons exist in London area I do not know, same as for the hospital records, maybe worth enquiring to the LMA? Mind you since so much of their stuff has been put on Ancestry anyway, I suspect we are going to be dissapointed there.

Paul, I'm not 100% up on the school records, I know of the Westminster French Protestant School and the Threadneedle Street Charity School. Which are the other two you are thinking of? The registers of the Threadneedle Charity School have been published fairly recently in the Huguenot Societies proceedings, and unfortunately Samuel is not amongst those. The Westminster Protestant School did not open until fairly late in the overall scheme of things, 1747, so is outside the scope as far as any possible useful information on Samuel Ober/Aube sr is concerned.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

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Re: Wrong baptism all along.
« Reply #56 on: Monday 08 November 10 12:20 GMT (UK) »
We could still look up school records for Samuel Jnr just out of interest. Might throw more light in Samuel Snr.

Richard you say you have registers of the Charity school. I know you cannot find any Samuel Obeys/Aubers there but are there any Fradin's or Morin's there?



Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Wrong baptism all along.
« Reply #57 on: Monday 08 November 10 16:20 GMT (UK) »
I imagine if the registers of the Westminster French Protestant School survive they would be at the Huguenot Society Library in Euston. What I do have is the record of pupils apprenticed from that school, and there are no Aubers/Fradins or Morins listed there.

These are the only mentions of your surnames in the Threadneedle Street School registers:

Susanne daughter of Daniel Morin, enrolled 10 Jul 1736.
Madelaine daughter of Daniel Morin, enrolled 6 Jul 1736 .
Daniel son of  Daniel Morin, enrolled 8 Sep 1736, died 1738.

Judith daughter of Julian Auber, aged 7, enrolled Oct 1745, left Jan 1750.

Mary daughter of  Louis Auber, aged 7, enrolled May 1747, left Feb 1750.
John son of Louis Auber, enrolled 7 May 1749.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London


Offline richarde1979

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Re: Wrong baptism all along.
« Reply #58 on: Monday 08 November 10 16:26 GMT (UK) »
Also I checked through St dunstans page by page 1719-122 and no sign of Samuel. However there are several instances of chidlren being baptised and then the parents leaving before the vicar recorded their details in his register.

One page alone has these two entries:

28 Aug 1720 "one went away from church and gave no name"

4 Sep 1720 "Four or five went from the church without entering their names"


There must be about 10-20 babies in all during the time we are looking for recorded like this, so the vicar there obviously wasn't especially diligent in his duties. This may be why we are having such trouble finding Samuel. Maybe he simple isn't there to be found because his details went unrecorded!
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

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Re: Wrong baptism all along.
« Reply #59 on: Monday 08 November 10 16:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi Richard

Interesting. I have had another look and cannot seem to find any baptisms of children to Samuel and Judith Obey/Obay. I checked children of just as Samuel and Judith and Jud* wildcard but found no obvious things. I do think we could be right in thinking Samuel married bigamously. Samuel and Susan had their first known child in 1749.

I am sure that 1784 hospital admission register refers to Samuel.

Ben
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Wrong baptism all along.
« Reply #60 on: Monday 08 November 10 16:57 GMT (UK) »
I have to say the more I think about it, Samuel Obey is unlikely to be related to the Bolbec Aubers who were very rich, just from the areas he was living in, which were where the poorer journeymen weavers lived. I do not believe he can be of the Caen Aubers, because Jacob's 1727/9 royal bounty record almost certainly rules that out. Both these families almost always use the form Auber or Aubert.

Gabriel Aube's line seems the only likelyhood, it is the oldest so most likely to be Anglicised. The Obee/Obe/Aube form seems to best  fit them, and I wonder is this because they were from Paris outskirts, rather than Normandy like the other two branches, and it was a regional spelling difference/pronunciation coming into play? We know Tobie and Jean were having children in the right place at the right time. We know they definently had at least one son, Tobie, not recorded on the baptisms, so all their children are not accounted for. We know the church they were using St Dunstan's were recording births irregularly and missing children at this time. The last child they baptised was at St Marys Whitechapel, in 1724 with adress Wentworth Street. The first child Samuel baptised 1740, he spells his surname the same, uses the same church, and gives an address at Bell Yard which is connected to Wentworth Street. He called a son Jacob.  Tobie Aube had a brother called Jacob.

Ok, we can't prove it. But balance of probabilites, I think he is their son.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

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Re: Wrong baptism all along.
« Reply #61 on: Monday 08 November 10 17:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Samuel and Susan had 3 children Samuel, Joseph and Susannah Obay 1749, 1750 and 1752. Yes I think the 3 children mentioned in 1728 probably does not refer to son Tobias as he was probably dead by then so there must be another child.

Ben
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

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Re: Wrong baptism all along.
« Reply #62 on: Monday 08 November 10 22:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi Richard

In the meantime I have been doing a bit more on the Fradin family. Francois and Elizabeth had 7 children Francois 1760, Jean 1763, Susanne 1765, Jacques 1767, Pierre 1770, George 1771 and Elizabeth 1775.

Susanna is my direct ancestor and we found George Fradin lived to 1839. However I found a James Fradin buried in July 1768 at St Matthew Bethnal Green and a Francis Fardin buried in March 1765 at the same church plus Elizabeth in April 1782. I think these are the 3 children born 1760, 1767 and 1775.

We are still not 100% sure on the Elizabeth Fradin burial in January 1786 aged 51 of Corbett's Court buried at Christ Church Spitalfields. We do believe this is Elizabeth Fradin nee Morin born in 1732.

Ben
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain