Charles Patmore/Emily Heard/??? Patmore

[kamakaziken]

Trish/ Moira/ Anyone.

Is there any way I can confirm what I have come across in 1837online.com?

I have a marriage for an Emily Heard in Apr/May/Jun 1888 at West Ham Registry (4a 112) but cannot find the listing for Charles Patmore (who I suspect (and hope) is the partner)

 and another entry
for Jul/Aug/Sept 1888 for a Birth of a Charles Henry PATMORE (Patmore Newing?)

Is there a way of checking before I go and order the certificates just to ensure that its the right things I am looking for?

Ken

[casalguidi]

Hi Ken

If you use http://freebmd.rootsweb.com and click on the number next to Emily HEARD mar 1888 you will see that (assuming the transcribing is correct) she married George Timothy KAVANAGH or Thomas Felvus OATES!  There are two males and two females per reference number at this stage.

With regards to the birth certificate, you could try applying direct to the relevant registry office (West Ham/Newham) and ask them to check that the mother is Emily nee HEARD before issuing the certificate (do give them as much details as you have ie. birthplace) - the GRO ref that you have won't be of any significance to this registry office.  They probably won't check marriages as many registry offices still don't have a combined index and would have to search every church & chapel in their district.

Best wishes

Casalguidi

['Tricia]

Do you ever get the feeling you are going round in circles??

Have had a quick look on 1891 and can't find an Emily married to either of those two blokes - just to exclude this lady. Was a quick look.

Can I be really boring, Ken and ask exactly what was written on that marriage cert. Did it say Emily Patmore formerly Heard or did it state she was a widow or what?

And who were the witnesses?

I smell skeletons in the cupboard, maybe.

Tricia

[kamakaziken]

Hi Tricia,
just returned from a weekend retreat (in a lunatic asylum)..... Emily Patmore (nee HEard) marriage certificate details as follows....

Marriage solemnized at All Saints Church in the parish of Leyton in the County of Essex. Number 95. 18th June 1893 between: George NEWING aged 30 batchelor (Labourer) Residence 2 Linmetree Cottages Beaumont Road, Fathers name and surname Charles Newing (deceased-Labourer)
and
Emily Sarah Patmore aged 35 Widow, residence 2 Limetree Cottages Beaumont Road, fathers name and surname: William Heard (deceased- Coachman)

Signed by George Newing and Emily Sarah Patmore, in the presence of (The mark of) Edward James Norman and Emma Fredricka Wyld.

Any help?
Ken 

['Tricia]

Not much

Does prove she was married to this Charles Patmore so should be on 1891 as Emily Patmore even though he is deceased.

Was hoping one of the witnesses was another Patmore or Heard that could have been traced on 1891.  Not so easy!

Will look at this again later

Tricia

[patmoa]

The Wyld that signed as a witness could well be correct as I am tracing Patmores also and have Wylds related to the Patmores via marriage. I have Charles Frederick Wylds b. dec qtr 1898 in Mile End and his father (I presume b. in Gt Munden) which is the area my Patmores came from. Could the child have been living in Gt Munden at the time of the census? I can't access all my information properly as I have just updated my genealogy program and need to find my way around it as everything has moved. Ann Patmore

[kamakaziken]

Hi Ann,
Thanks for your message, I hadnt thought about the Wyld/Patmore connection at all (it just didnt occur to me that perhaps there was a relationship there)

I suppose its possible for the son (?? Patmore)to not have been at home with Emily and Charles at their Leyton home on the night of the census in 1891

I have him on the 1901 with his new stepfather (George William Newing) and his mother in Leyton but only listed as "Patmore Newing"

Can you let me have any details you do have for the Wyld's and Patmores you do have please.

Thanks.
Ken 

[patmoa]

I have a Nathan Patmore married Eliza Wylds 1875 in Gt Munden.
Nathan was born 26 April 1848 in Westmill, died 3 Nov 1938 Gt Munden.
Eliza Wylds born 1853 Gt Munden died 19th Jan 1940 Gt Munden. Not certain but I think Eliza's father ran the local inn 'The Plough'
Ann

[kamakaziken]

HI Ann,
thanks for the information it is certainly another line of enquiry for me to have a look at.
Ken