Another Conundrum - Emley/Heckmondwike

[Samueller]

I have had another stab at solving your problem of Thomas GOLDTHORPE/GAWTHORP(E) who married Mary SCARGILL in 1859 and had died by 7 April 1861.

To summarise what I and others have reported so far.

1.  Thomas GOLDTHORPE b Foulstone ca 1813, married Hannah.  He can be eliminated because he was still living (in Dewsbury) in 1861.

2.  Thomas GOLDTHORPE b Chapeltown ca 1813, married Mary.  He can be eliminated because he was still living (in Dewsbury) in 1871.

3.  Thomas GOLDTHORPE b Shelley ca 1817, married Martha.  He can be eliminated because Martha was a widow alive in 1861, which suggests that he was the one who died in Huddersfield RD in 1860.

4.  Thomas GAWTHORP, b Huddersfield ca 1812, married Elizabeth.  He can be eliminated because he was still alive in 1861.

Having established that GOLDTHORPE and GAWTHORP(E) are often interchanged, I had another search and found 5., a Thomas GAWTHORP b ca 1812 in Huddersfield living in Dewsbury in 1851, married to Harriet b ca 1811 with children Joshua 16, George 14, Ethel 13, Rachel 9, Michael 7, Thjomas 5, Alfred 2, and Josiah 8 months. There is a death of a Harriet GAWTHORP in Dewsbury RD in 1/1857.

Could this be 'your' Thomas?

Sam.

[Holmemoss]

You may have found him, Sam

From my the notes I made when I looked at the 1861 census a few years ago, I only have Scargill children (denoted as Gawthorp) in this census.

May I please ask if you can find one, or some, of the true Gawthorpe children - Michael 7, Thomas 5, Alfred 2, and Josiah 8 months in 1851 - in 1861.

Thank you.

[Samueller]

This family doesn't seem to be indexed under any of the spellings GAWTHORP, GAWTHORPE, GOLDTHORP, GOLDTHORPE on Ancestry for 1861, but I found some of them on Findmypast, where I am only able to view the transcript, not the original image.

Living in Cater Lane, Heckmondiwke:
Jonathan GOLDTHORPE, Head, Mar, 26, Farmer's labourer, b Yorks, Sandal.
Easter [sic] do, Wife, 30, Yks, Honley.
Susan do, Son [sic,] 9, Yorks, Dewsbury.
Michael do, Brother, 17, Factory Boy, do, do.
Thomas do, Brother, 15, Farmers Labourer, do, do.
Alfred do, Brother, 12, Scholar, do, do.
Mary Ann do, Sister, 8, - , do, do

There is a birth registration of Mary Ann GAWTHORP [sic] in Dewsbury RD, 1/1853. It would be interesting to know what it states regarding her parent(s).

I also found some of them in 1871, this time on Ancestry:

Heckmondwike Road, Dewsbury:
Michael GOLDTHORP, Head, Mar, 27. Wool Cleaner, Yorks, Dewsbury.
Hannah do, Wife, 32, - , Yorks, West Ardsley.
children aged 5, 3, 2, 4 months.
Alfred do, Brother, 23, Woollier, Yorks, Dewsbury.

Living next door:
Josiah GAWTHORPE, Head, 21, Railway Platelayer, Yorks, Dewsbury.
Isabella do, Wife, 20,  - , Yorks, Heckmondwike.
Mary Ann do, Daur, 4 months, Yorks, Dewsbury.

Thomas not found.

Marriages in Dewsbury RD:
Josiah GAWTHORP and Isabella TOWNEND, 4/1869.
Michael GOLDTHORPE & Hannah VERITY, 4/1863.

Sam

[Holmemoss]

I think you have solved it, Sam. Thank you.

To recap:

Thomas Goldthorpe, married to Harriet, was living in Dewsbury in 1851 with their children.

Harriet died in 1857 and Thomas then married the widowed Mary Scargill in 1859. Thomas died before the 1861 census - I think the death registered in the March quarter of 1861 in Dewsbury is the correct one rather than those in the Huddersfield RD in 1860.

The children from Thomas's first marriage went to live with their elder brother Jonathan while Mary, for some reason, reverted to her previous married name of Scargill.

May I please ask for the full details for Thomas and Harriet in 1951.

[Holmemoss]

I forgot to mention the Betty Goldthorpe aged 3 living with Mary in 1861.

As Mary's Scargill children were mistakenly denoted as Gawthorpe in 1861, I just wonder if Betty is, in fact, a Scargill.

[Samueller]

First, the easy bit.  There is a birth registration in Dewsbury RD of Elizabeth SCARGILL in June 1/4 of 1857.
There is no Betty or Elizabeth GAWTHORP, GAWTHORPE, GOLDTHORP or GOLDTHORPE.  So your presumption seems to be correct.

With regard to Thomas and Harriet, I have a problem.  The image on Ancestry is very indistinct and I am unable to access it on FindMyPast because my computer has 64-bit Flash version and it is only viewable in 32-bit, or vice versa.  Perhaps someone else can look it up.  The best I can do from Ancestry is:

Ref HO 107/2324 f 483 p 38.
Moor Bottom, Dewsbury.
Thomas GAWTHORP, Head, Mar, 36, [illegible] Journeyman, Yorks, Dewsbury.
Harriet do, Wife, Mar, 37, - , do do.
Joshua do, Son, 16, [illegible], do do.
George do, Son, 14, Factory [illegible] Worker, do do.
Ethel do, Daur, 13, Factory Worker, do do.
Rachel do, Daur, 9, Nurse, do do.
Michael do, Son, 7, Scholar, do do.
Thomas do, Son, 5,  - , do do.
Alfred do, Son, 2, - , do do.
Josiah do, Son, 8 months, - , do do.

[Holmemoss]

Thank you, Sam, and I apologise for the late response but I have been away.

If Betty 'Gawthorp' is indeed a Scargill then she must be the illegitimate daughter of one of Mary's daughters; the surviving ones being Harriet, Jane, Emma, Ellen and Mary Ann.

Harriet married in 1854 so it is not her.

Ellen was 15 in 1861 so unlikely and Mary Ann was 13 in 1861 so, again, even more unlikely.

That leaves Jane and Emma (my GG Grandmother) both of whom married in 1860 so I suppose it could be either of them.

[Samueller]

I am afraid the only way to answer that one is to order a copy of Elizabeth Scargill's birth registration or to seek a record of her baptism.

Sam.

[Holmemoss]

You are right, of course, Sam.

Thank you for all your help.