Deloche family 1891 - missing?!

[Annette7]

Think Isabella Williams died 1894 St. Geo. Hanover Square.

Annette

[flutterbymusic]

Hello, sorry for the lack of replies as I am currently busy but have just read through what you have found and am shocked. I will post all of my documentation on Isabella Rosina Deloche later.

[Annette7]

I'm not surprised you are shocked!    Trust it to be me to open this can of worms.......

I note that Isabella Rosina Wedge was born 2/6/1887, d.1970 Southwark.

The only way to confirm she is indeed the Isabella Rosina Williams born 1887 is by getting the birth certificate which would confirm birthdate.  Father could be named as Frederick but as we know they weren't married possibly father's name could be left blank although I'm sure Frederick was her father.   Really can't say but birth date would be the clincher.

Sorry to have put the cat amongst the pigeons.

Annette

[flutterbymusic]

I'm not surprised you are shocked!    Trust it to be me to open this can of worms.......

I note that Isabella Rosina Wedge was born 2/6/1887, d.1970 Southwark.

The only way to confirm she is indeed the Isabella Rosina Williams born 1887 is by getting the birth certificate which would confirm birthdate.  Father could be named as Frederick but as we know they weren't married possibly father's name could be left blank although I'm sure Frederick was her father.   Really can't say but birth date would be the clincher.

Sorry to have put the cat amongst the pigeons.

Annette

Don't apologise! I think its made things truly interesting. I'm very thankful! I hadn't actually noticed before that I didn't have a birth confirmation as Isabella Rosina Deloche as I have instead got her birth information from her death certificate (of which I have an original copy of). Yes, she married Alfred Frederick Charles Wedge and so you have the correct death date.

Not sure if you've seen it already but I guess to easiest way of showing you all what I have so far is linking to my Ancestry tree.

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/19989976/person/879970978

Yeah, I think I will have to get the birth certificate. Although it seems that in the Census Frederick may have been lying to make sure it looked like they were married (too much hassle to change kids names) and Isabella has been listed as Williams so that she doesn't stand out, I guess?

It does make me wonder if Isabella knew much about Johanna and Isabella as I guess she grew up with Rose as her mother figure. Definitely something to look into!

I will find the records you have found now and add them to the tree.

Thanks once again!

Sasha

[flutterbymusic]

Woops, I meant she married Alfred Wedge! Alfred Frederick Charles Wedge was her son.

Talking of which, her sons and daughter have her maiden name listed as Deloche on their birth registrations.

[CaroleW]

WOW - Annette - or should I call you Poirot?

That is one of the best finds I have seen in a long time so take a bow.

Looking at the 1901 image again - yes- Thomas is 2yrs old - flippin' enumerator has put a slash in front of the 2

A real can of worms indeed

[flutterbymusic]

Afraid I've now opened up a can of worms.

First, CaroleW, son Thomas only 2 in 1901, not 12 (and his baptism recorded in London baptisms) so not around in 1891.

Secondly, think I have found Frederick and Isabella although you might not think so at first.

On 1901 Census Isabella shown as born Southwark (1911 states Westminster).  Not having any luck searching for a likely Isabella born Southwark I then looked for Isabella's born Westminster.  An Isabella R. Williams came up and an  Isabella Rosina Williams birth was registered Sept.qtr.1887 St. George Hanover Square.
Looked at 1891 Census and then couldn't believe my eyes:

1891 - 139 Regency Street, St. Margaret & St. John the Evangelist, Westminster (ref.RG12 - 78 - 207 - 68)

Frederick Williams  Head  35   Stationers Assistant      b. Westminster
Isabella Williams    Wife   30    Laundry Woman           b. East Moseley, Surrey
William H. Williams  Son    11                                        b. Westminster
Alice J. Williams       Dau.     7                                        b. Southwark
Isabella R. Williams Dau.     3                                        b. Westminster
Albert E. Elliott   brother in law    18                              b. Westminster

As you can see, apart from the surname all the details match Frederick Deloche.

Did some digging and, as Albert's surname indicates, Isabella was born Isabella Elliott and in 1877 at Westminster married a Charles Williams.   You can find them on the census in 1881 on RG11 - 119 - 24 - 41.    Charles' age, birthplace and occupation do not match the details given for Frederick Williams in 1891.   

So, it looks like Frederick Deloche had separated from wife Johanna sometime between 1881 and 1891 and that daughter Isabella Rosina was his daughter with Isabella Williams (nee Elliott).   Why he has 'adopted' the name Williams I can't say unless Isabella was the informant to the enumerator and gave his name as such.   I'm assuming at this stage that Isabella was Frederick's daughter with Isabella Williams as I can't think he'd claim her as his daughter in 1901 if she'd simply been Isabella's daughter and not his.   

Checked this backwards and forwards and there is no Frederick Williams that fits the 1891 entry plus evidence shows Isabella's husband was actually a Charles Williams bc.1855/6 Chelsea and there's a possible death entry in 1885.   If that is him he couldn't have fathered Isabella Rosina leaving Frederick the likely candidate.

Only way to confirm if Frederick is the father would be to get Isabella Rosina Williams birth certificate.

Will leave you to digest (it takes some doing).

Annette

Hello all, apologies for boosting an old topic but wanted to provide an update. I have yet to get Isabella's birth certificate however recent research led to several newspaper articles from 1881 reporting that Isabella Williams had attended a Westminster court asking to divorce her husband to live with "another young man". The magistrate was the 1st cousin of Alfred Lord Tennyson, a Mr D'Eyncourt. Her case was basically laughed off and she was told not to compromise her character. Newspapers as far as New Zealand sympathised with her however, she and her husband clearly had such dislike for each other by the time she turned 22 that they was able to plan out every last point - who would get the knives and forks to which children. Her story was compared to many a novel of the time.

I wouldn't have found out this information if it wasn't for the help provided here. I just need to confirm how whether or not she was ever able to divorce Charles of if he had in fact died. Otherwise it seems there was a mighty affair going on.

Sadly Isabella Williams died aged 33. I'm hoping to pick up her death certificate soon.

Sasha

[dawnsh]

Hi Sasha

You can search for a decree absolute at the National Archives site here

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp

the department code is J 77, there's a possible entry in 1896/1897

Alternatively, there are some divorce records online at Ancestry in the UK, Civil Divorce Records, 1858-1911, the same record and images are there.

Dawn

[flutterbymusic]

Hi Sasha

You can search for a decree absolute at the National Archives site here

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp

the department code is J 77, there's a possible entry in 1896/1897

Alternatively, there are some divorce records online at Ancestry in the UK, Civil Divorce Records, 1858-1911, the same record and images are there.

Dawn

Hi Dawn, thank you for your help! Unfortunately the record you found is for another Isabella & Charles (it contains a marriage certificate for a lady called Isabella Grove married in 1888).

Sasha