ship manifests

[feeline190]

Hi all,
I sent for my great grandads wedding cert and was extremly excited by what was on it. My great grandads father was Robert Hartley who was a cotton waste dealer and my great grandmas father was george Holmes who was a flax dresser (journeyman) although I don't believe he was her biological father as I think he was actually called george caswell.Witnessess were Mary Hartley and J. Dickinson.
From this I have found the Hartley's on the 1881 census but I sort of get completely lost at that point. I have not idea who Mary Hartley is.
And Charles isn't there!

[Galium]

I think I can explain Mary Hartley, an explanation which includes an apology for a bit of wrong information in my last post -  Polly is a pet name for Mary, not Margaret.

Robert HARTLEY married Margaret HINDLE in Blackburn in 1853. You can find this on Lancashire BMD:

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

If you use the same site to search for births of HARTLEY children with mother's maiden name HINDLE. you will find Charles (1854), William (1855), Mary A (1861) and Robert (1864). 

Although the 1871 census clearly gives the 10 year old daughter's name as Margaret A, there is no Margaret A Hartley birth registered in Blackburn district in 1860/61 with mother's maiden name Hindle.

So, I think that Mary Hartley is Polly, and should have been recorded as Mary A Hartley in 1871 (not Margaret), and I am sorry for having given duff information previously.

Is Charles your Ggrandfather?

[feeline190]

hi Galium,
William is my ggrandad and charles is his brother. All I have from this side of the family is a letter written by charles to his parents. My dad and my aunty were always led to believe that my ggrandad was an only child but obviously this isn't true.William was 53 when he married my ggrandma who was 44.
I don't know what happened Charles the letter said that he was heading to Germany but that doesn't mean that he got there or that he stayed. All that I know is that he was apparently a painter.

[Canuc]

How confident of the vessel's name are you? I've tried a few sites to get the background and I don't get it to come out.

You could try this site.
http://www.miramarshipindex.org.nz/

Happy hunting
Canuc

[feeline190]

Hi all,
Been taking a break from this side of the tree for a while as I was going bonkers looking for charles. Ive decided that I will put the letter I have on here.
                                                                               September 24th 1873
Dear Father and Mother,
          I'm writing these few lines hoping to find you in good health as it leaves me at this present time. I am now at sea on a voyage to Germany, I am on board the coasting steamship Monarch of North Shields. I have been at sea since April 1st. I had a sad misfortune in a gale of wind on the 13th day of April, ans was much hurt but I am alright now, thank God for it.
Please write and let me know how you are going on and what you think of me now since I left the Heywood Arms(Actually hopwood arms). If my Father is not at home let my little sister Polly write and that will do for me, so no more at present.
                            Your Prodigal son

                            Charles Hartley
Direct your letter to
                               Mr Daniel Anguish,
                     71 Blackfriars Road,
                   Great Yarmouth

For Harry Armstrong
I wonder whether i should trace harry armstrong

[ShaunJ]

My take on this:

The ship's name was Monarch
Its home port was North Shields
To have been on the vessel for nearly 6 months, Charles Hartley must have been a member of the crew.
Daniel Anguish may have been the master ... there are two masters of that name on vessels in the 1871 census.
Harry Armstrong - was that a name Charles Hartley was using perhaps ?

[feeline190]

Hi Shaunj,
I assumed that Harry Armstrong was a friend or acquaintance but I supposed it could be an alias. I have a look. Thanks
Feeline190

[Canuc]

Feeline190,

Have you looked at TNA website for the Continuous Certificate of Discharge? Not sure absolutely sure that it existed in this form at that time or what you can hope to find for the 1873 time period but it may give you some information for Charles Hartley or Harry Armstrong. Charles would not be the first to have gone to sea under an assumed name.

Knowing that Robert Hartley had sons Charles and William your grandfather and there is also a younger daughter, your Aunt Mary, known as Polly and you work on the presumption that granddad lived in the area shown as his address at marriage then you could hope to get something useful out of the 1851, '61 and '71 census records.

Do you have a copy of granddad's birth certificate to get them pinned down a little more?

The previous suggestion about passenger lists won't help you, passengers are not recorded for vessels between GB and Europe or the Mediterranean (Irish ferries the same). A ships log is possible but a long shot as not all were kept and the largest collection for UK registered vessels is in Canada (they gave them a home when they were going to be pulped.

Happy hunting
Canuc

[ShaunJ]

One Daniel Anguish was master of the British Queen, a Yarmouth fishing lugger in 1871 (census) and November 1872 (report of collision damage in the Ipswich Journal 26th November).

British Queen...Monarch...I wonder if this was Charles Hartley muddying the waters by disguising the name of the vessel.