My elusive convict Frederick HENRY b. 1809

[majm]

Hi there,

Re RG107; 1543; 317; 30

Somethings don't make sense to me...  Frederick was 20 in 1830 at his trial.  The Thomas Henry and his sister Eliza in that 1851 record may be candidates to be Frederick's brother and sister judging by their ages, far too young to be his parents (or step parents) ... Eliza would have been born eight years AFTER her son, and she's recorded as the SISTER of Thomas Henry      However, do you think the West Indies town could be Demerara (as in the sugar  )

And have you looked for births on the IGI for Frederick Henry and or Thomas Henry born in the West Indies ?  From his indent papers etc, what was his complexion or colouring ...   

Cheers,  JM

[Lesley_A]

Hi JM,

Sorry, I went from one thing to another 

I really want an Elizabeth JONES to marry a Thomas HENRY (as per Fred's Death Cert). but there's no such marriage in Family Search. (I've just been looking *again*).

The Thomas and Elizabeth from the West Indies I thought could be Fred's younger brother and sister (named after their parents). I have been down a track with an Elizabeth HENRY from St Pancras who had West Indian investments and children (with the right names, right occupations) born there - but her husband was *not* Thomas.

(Drats!).

West Indian records on the IGI are the pits - although the name HENRY certainly occurs there. Clutching at straws ... but on the other hand, where *are* Fred's parents? Or any relatives?

Only other search that has been this hard involved a Danish sailor who used the name Charles LAWSON in Oz (and whose Irish wife had mangled the Bible entries). But, we found him in the end ... birth name Nils Christian LARSEN.

(Withnames reflected in his children's names - *once* you knew the answer)   

Cheers,


Lesley

[Teddles]

Butting in, Sorry

Re Violin and rural NSW in 19thC .... entirely possible that fake "Strads" were plentiful, and perhaps backyard cricket too!

I recently attended 100th birthday celebrations for my Violin teacher, whose father, grandfather and great grandfather all were violin teachers, and all born up around Armidale NSW.  My teacher was also concert violinist and lots of info on professional performances online Aust newspapers for my teacher and HER father.

I have just phoned teacher and asked about Fake Strads.  She thinks these were very popular in her father's youth and were apparently made in a workshop in The Strand Arcade in Sydney and sold by commission agents touring NSW in wagons (cheaper and easier to transport than pianos etc)  Apparently the varish was very poor quality and shrank after exposure to the dry arid air west of the Blue Mountains, this would make everything brittle and frail  and the bridge was poorly constructed....

I feel Frederick Henry was most likely his real name, its the name under which he was tried when aged 20.  If it is not his real name, then it seems to me that it was certainly his KNOWN BY name.   

Have you checked for any births for HENRY around Leeds circa 1810 in case John Lawford or John Mabson were 'settling a personal score' against Freddy afterall Freddy stated in court that he had NO memory of the offence, and no one asked him to name his associate in the crime, and no attempt recorded to find the associate.  If you got a Life sentence, and your mate got off and away, would you not try to appeal the sentence or anticipate being asked about your associate and at least ASK questions in the court ... there's a month between the offence and the trial, plenty of time to find your own witnesses or at least advertise in the London newspapers for same    .... 


Teddles

[Lesley_A]

Hi Teddles,

I would believe that about the violin ... the comment I read says "A Strad according to the label in it" (and I doubt that genuine ones - of which there were apparently *two* in Australia - came with a stick-on label) 

Cheers,


Lesley

[alicia83]

hi there,
I'm new to this site, so i don't know that much info about it, but the reason I'm here is my grandfather is john Henry Morgan and i believe i could be a very distant relative. If not its all interesting anyway.  I was looking thru my 85 year old grandfathers old photos and cleaning up the house ready to sell and came across a family tree.
some of the information matches up with the Frederick Henry you are talking about and I believe his sister Elizabeth is my great great grandmother.
In the list of the family i have; (this is line for line as written on the paper)
Thomas HENRY m Elizabeth Jones begot
Frederick HENRY born London 1809 m Cecilia McGowan b Ireland 1826
James m Mary White
Edward m Sarah Asbery, Sarah Hansaker, Mary Noyes, nee Asbery
Fredrick bachelor, 1856-1926
John died young, twin of Frederick
Mary Jane m 1852-78 m John ALBERTSON
Elizabeth married John MORGAN
Thomas m Elizabeth Davidson
William m Janet White
Cecilia Jane m James HYDE 1st, James BLAKE 2nd (moree peop.)

My great great grandmother is Elizabeth m John Morgan they had 14 kids and my great grand father was Martin Morgan who was a police officer. He married Florence Feild and had one child John Henry Morgan. J.H.Morgan married Thelma Jean Jones
They had 4 kids my mother the Youngest Catherine has 2 children me and my younger sister.

Anyway I have more dates and information about all the extended family. I'm sure there is someone with some information in the family, unfortunately my grandfather is not the best person to talk to about this as he is starting to suffer dementure and has always been difficult to talk to.  I do know that his origins are from Ireland, the Meath and possibly the Cork area. I only found this out from a text message from my mother while i was in Ireland last year.

I don't know if this is relevent or if I'm even on the right track but some of the names mentioned in your post were matching the information i have.. also i have loads of old photographs of family members which may match up or resemble if you have similar.. I just thought it was all interesting and thought id say hi.. let me know if it matches up.

any questions feel free to ask.. and if you really want to talk to my grandpa on this he love to talk about himself and his family on and on... so much no one in our family listens.. sad.. but old age will get the best of him soon so maybe now is the time to start digging on the family history...

Alicia

[Lesley_A]

Hi Alicia,

Definitely the right family - I have your Martin MORGAN in my tree as born in Nundle, NSW (pop. 300), which is where I now live 

The Elizabeth HENRY you refer to is a daughter, not a sister. I am once again in a cloud of Doubt over Fred and his origins, with the *only* source of information being, as far as I know, the data on his NSW Death Certificate.

(The informant being my great-grandfather, his son-on-law, John ALBERTSON).

If you have *anything* else about Fred, I would love to have it. Much of what was written about him is (unfortunately) garbage, written by the family in the days when a convict past was something to be covered up, rather than flaunted. <sigh>

Lesley

[julie1875]

Hello Alicia,

I am a great  grandaughter of Elizabeth Henry and John Morgan - I would be delighted to talk to you privately in relation to the Morgan's.  I have information which would be off assistance in your research and would love to swap information etc.
Fantastic to see you post.
Julie

[Lesley_A]

Hi Alicia,


Cecilia Jane m James HYDE 1st, James BLAKE 2nd (moree peop.)

I wonder, is this marriage actually right? I have Cecilia married 1st to James HYDE, but 2nd to William KNOX in Tamworth (in 1900).

(A descendant of that marriage, Bruce KNOX, has published some articles about Fred).

Also, I think her name was just Cecilia, not Cecilia Jane ... has there been a mix-up here, I wonder?

Cheers,


Lesley

[alicia83]

hey Julie.. and Leslie
yea sounds good.. I downloaded Family Tree Builder from myheritige.com today and have been going thru all the scrappy bits of paper i have about the family to add as much info as possible.. lol what else to do on a rainy day...
my great grandpa is martin morgan, wondering what your relation is,, but yea im up for getting to know the family history...  im only new to this site so i guess you can privatly post but i dont know how yet..

I think my aunty has some info and im waiting to hear back from her too..