Did Thomas die abroad?

[rosie99]

Hi

You say that Thomas was still alive when your grandmother married - did he witness the marriage?  If you are just going on the fact that it didn't say he was deceased that information is not reliable and only depends on whether your grandmother said he was alive, if she was actually asked by the clergy.

What was his occupation on her wedding certificate  and her brothers?

Rosie

[exdancer]

Morning Rosie

this is where it is all confussing. He didn't witness the marriage of my Grandmother. And he is down as father Thomas Keen a Butler on the certificate. On Johns he is also down as a Butler with deceased under it. So if he were a gun smith would it not say gunsmith deceased? One of the other confussing things is that on the baptism record for John, Thomas is down as John Keen a leather dresser. Now this could be down to error on behalf of the cleric.

[rosie99]

Morning 

What I find strange is that there is also a Thomas Johnson bn Godalming c1844 (a leather dresser)
In 1881 he is also living in Marylebone - his children have the middle name of Keen.

I am quite sure that Thomas Keen and Thomas Johnson are two different people, they are on census with their families in 1851 (though some people seem to think otherwise  )   But do you think they are related - Godalming would have been a reasonably small place in the 1840's, Perhaps the Johnsons were at the christening and his occupation was used in error (were they baptising one of their children)  I can't see them after 1881 either.

Is Thomas Keane in 1891 your Thomas, or perhaps Thomas Johnson either way they are saying they are single but bn Godalming.

I do find the variety of occupations odd.


Still thinking 

Rosie

[exdancer]

Rosie I am sorry to say they didn't make it easy, did they?......LOL Thomas Johnson lived a few streets away from Thomas Keen in Godalming and they probably went to school together. They could even have been friends. They are not the same person, and I think Thomas Keen would have had to be very cleaver to change the records from the days he was a child.

It is possible that Thomas Johnson was at the baptism and it is also possible that he stood in for Thomas if Thomas was away working I guess. There may be a skeleton in the cupboard I don't know. There is no proof either way, and without proof where do you go?

Robert

[exdancer]

Rosie

It may not be a variety of professions they may all be different people that are not even related. I mean Lilian Mary, and John Alfred still have him as a Butler even after he is reported to have died. Plus Esther's death certificate in 1925 has her as widow of Thomas Keen Butler. So nobody in the family have him down as anything other than a butler.

[paulanthony262003]

Hello Robert,

I just did a google search and found one entry in the Edinburgh Gazette for a Thomas Keen from Godalming for June 30th 1900!

http://www.edinburgh-gazette.co.uk/issues/11212/pages/661/page.pdf

His name appears on the right hand side pf the page, under the section titled "without competiton" and then the sub-title "postmen".  By going back one page in this gazette to page /660/ it states that these were "Certified Civil Service Commissioned Appointments".  Do you think this is him? Maybe he had moved to Scotland from Warwick after the 1891 census? It could be worth searching Scottish Census records and Death Indices to see if he appears in those.

Regards,
Paul

[paulanthony262003]

Ok,
Scratch the bit about him moving to Scotland, because the same entry also appeared in the London Gazette:

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/27207/pages/4135

These entries sees to suggest, if it is the same Thomas keen from Godalming, that he became a London postman in 1900!?

[paulanthony262003]

Sarching these records might reveal who was thomas Keen, postman, from Godalming.

http://postalheritage.org.uk/collections/archive/familyhistory/

Address: Freeling House
              Phoenix Place
              LONDON
              WC1X 0DL
•Email: info@postalheritage.org.uk
•Phone: +44 (0)20 7239 2570
•Fax: +44 (0)20 7239 2576
•Minicom: +44 (0)20 7239 2572

[paulanthony262003]

Sorry!
Forget my posts above, further census research has now found that there was a Thomas Keen, born circa 1875 working as a postman in Hambledon, in 1901. It's just down the road from Godalming!
Drat! Oh well, it looked promising at first, but never mind, at least that rules out another Thomas from Godalming!