Did Thomas die abroad?

[exdancer]

Thomas Keen born in Godalming 1841 September 10th. Worked as a butler and married Esther Snook in 1870.By 1872 my Grandmother Lilian Mary was born and in Sep' 1872 her brother John Alfred Wilton Keen was born Feb' 1877.

in the 1911 Census Esther who is a widow states that she had 4 children but that only 2 lived. So these children must have been born between 1870 and 1890. Esther was born in 1838 so by 1890 she would have been 52. Esther states that she was a widow by 1901 so there is a small window in which these children could have been born.

does anybody have any Info on who these children were? If you do please let me know.

[lizdb]

Have you found the family in 1881?

mod - answering my own question

RG11 150 10 13
9 Homer Street Marylebone
Esther 39 Married domestic by the day bn London City
Lillian M 9 bn Marylebone
John ALf 4  bn Marylebone

Cant see Thomas anywhere, maybe she is already widowed.

Room to have had and lost 2 babies between the known children, or before Lillian

[lizdb]

1871
Rg10 155 65 9

Thomas Keen, married, is a butler in Cavendish Square

Cant spot Esther (and any children) though!

Lillian's christeing in Dec 1872 gives an address of Northumberland Street

[amber39]

In 1881 census Esther is given as Head of house

Marylebone   9, Horner St.

Esther Keen   age 39   Head    Married      Domestic by Day    b. City of London  Middlesex

Lilian M.   age 9  b. Marylebone

John Alfred    age 4  b. Marylebone

Looks like he might have left her by this time.


Regards    Amber39

[rosie99]

Hi

As both Lilian and Johns birth's were both registered in Marylebone have you considered checking the deaths of young 'Keens' in this district between 1871/1881  

Frederick William born and died Sept qtr 1870
'Male' bn and died March qtr 1871
Florence Elizabeth and Michael Henry both bn June qtr 1875 died Dec qtr 1875
Thomas Henry bn Dec qtr 1874 died June qtr 1877
Harriett bn and died Dec qtr 1877 (probably not her as close to Johns birth )
Thomas Frederick bn and died Dec qtr 1879

Rosie

[lizdb]

Looks like he might have left her by this time.

I expect he was just butlering in a big house somewhere - as in 1871

[exdancer]

Hello everybody thank you for trying to help. I have found most of the Census stuff, but as for the children I guess I will just have to do it the expensive way and buy certificats. I have looked at most of the Thomas Keen stuff but on Johns Baptsim the name has been changed to John instead of Thomas, now this could be due to the fact that Esther's Elizabeth also married a Thomas Keen, only he was from Devon not Surrey. It also seems that Great Granfather Thomas changed his job and became a leather dresser by this time. Then there is a Thomas Keane Leather dresser from Godalming working in Warwick in 1891 age 50. Could this be Great Grand Daddy?

I have not found a death for this Thomas and I am thinking that he may have not been on British soil when he died. But I will just keep looking. There is one that is a gun smith, but I thought Butler to leather dresser and then Gun smith is maybe too many  changes, but once again thank you

By the way one child that I feel might be right is Harriet As The Mother of Thomas was called Harriet

[softly softly]

Hi,
Have you considered and ruled out the death of a Thomas Keen aged 58 = c1841 March q London City 1c 13

John

[exdancer]

Goodmorning John

I have looked at this Thomas Keen in the city and even have the death certificate, but there is no wife mentioned on the certificate and it says that he is a gun smith. I don't know how hard that job is but it seemed a big jump from Butler to leather dresser and then to gun smith. I have not ruled that Thomas Keen out though as Thomas is shown as living on my Grandmothers wedding Cert' in 1898, but then shown as dead on her brothers Licence in 1907, plus Esther says that she is a widow in 1901. I must say the Gun Smith thing is the thing that makes me doubt this is him. I really don't know as there is nothing on the certificate to say that this is him, but then there is nothing to say that it isn't.