Help Thomas Croke born Manchester, Lanc

[Stonehouse Boy]

Hi,
Could anybody help me with this one or point me in the right direction please.
My Great-Grandfather was Thomas Croke, his father was Patrick Croke and his mother was Ellen Croke nee Torpy.
Patrick Croke joined the 18th Royal Irish Regt in Liverpool District on the 13th June 1860 and was sent to Buttevant, Co. Cork for training.
Marriage Records show a Patrick Croake married a Ellen Torpy in Kilkenny on the 11-2-1862. In 1863 Patrick and Ellen leave Cork with two children for New Zealand which was to be the new posting for the Royal Irish Regt. The two children being Thomas and his younger brother James born in Buttevant, Co Cork. When the family return from New Zealand in 1870 they are now in Plymouth.
The 1871 Census for Plymouth show Patrick and Ellen and now four children Thomas and James shown as being born in Ireland, and the other two being born in New Zealand.
I can find the birth for James Croke in Ireland but not Thomas Croke, also later in life Thomas Croke would join the Royal Navy.
His Royal Navy service papers show Thomas Croke being born in Manchester, Lancs in 1864, the family set sail for New Zealand in 1863 ?. With the other documents I have this is the same Thomas Croke. Thomas Croke was a Roman Catholic but I have not been able myself to find any record of his birth.
Any help would be great.
Thank you
John 

[mshrmh]

John, like you I can't find him under that spelling on FreeBMD or on LancashireBMD. I've tried Thomas Cro* in the Manchester & Chorlton districts (many "Manchester" birthplaces came under the latter) - there's a Thomas Crow in 1863, a Thomas Crookes in 1864 who could be possibles - both Manchester. It could be that he was one of the unregistered - until sometime in the 1870s there wasn't a penalty so some went unregistered.

I've had a look on the LancsOPC site which as yet doesn't have anything - it is strongest on C of E records, but is being added to regularly.
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/

Have you tried the beta family search site - occasionally that has RC records

[Stonehouse Boy]

Hi mshrmh,
Thank you for looking.
His Royal Navy service papers and the Census from 1891 onwards plus his Coast Guard record all state he was born in Manchester Lancs. The Census for 1871 state he was born in Ireland, I've tried one of the main Irish BDM websites for that period of time for his birth but they all come back with the wrong parents. From 1875-1887 he followed his father into the Royal Irish Regt and was in India for sometime that's why he's not on the 1881 Census. His service papers for the Royal Irish Regt have not survived but the muster book for the regiment shows Thomas Croke born about 1860. His headstone over his grave state he was 75 when he died in 1932 which would make him born in 1857 it could be he lied when he joined The Royal Navy in 1889 in which he states he was born on the 25th August 1864.
John

[AllyS]

If it is of any help, Thomas Croke, son of Patrick and Ellen, was born in April 1861. The pay list for 2nd battalion 18th Regiment of  Foot, that I looked at a few years ago at the National Archives states that Patrick Croke was placed on the roll of the married establishment 1st February 1864 and the July 1/4 1869 list gives his wife as Ellen and the 4 children as aged 8 years 2 months, 6 years 11 months, 2 years 0 months and 1 month. I didn't find Patrick on all the pay lists but one muster roll mentioned that he was in Australia for a while, the rest of the time they were in New Zealand. As the eldest 2 children were born before he was on the married establishment there is no more detail about them. I didn't find his attestation papers so I didn't realize he signed up in Liverpool. I'd also not been able to find the marriage. If you have any more on Patrick I would love to hear about him.

[Stonehouse Boy]

Thank you for your reply Ally have sent a PM