William Edward Smith

[hely]

According to his army records William Edward Smith was born in Brewood Shifnal Shropshire about 1879.  I need his mother and father's names. Any help getting me out of this rabbit hole would be much appreciated.

[AMBLY]

Hi Hely

Welcome to Rootschat 

Is there anything else in the Army record to assist?

When & where did he attest?
Next of Kin?
Wife? marriage?
Address?
Civil occupation?
Did it state if he was living in 'his father's house"?
Exact age given (yrs & month perhaps?)
Discharge address, if applicable?

Cheers
AMBLY

[hely]

Thanks for the answer
He attested on 17/1/1999
Next of kin is A? Smith mother the A is a bit uncertain but he called his 1st daughter Alice so Maybe she is Alice
He joined at Shrewsbury.
Aged 18 and 3 months
He was a labourer
 He had not lived in his father's house for the questioned period of time.
He was discharged 16/1/1911 but oddly came to Australia in 1909 so he may have been a reservist.
He married Ada Goodwin in 1907 they had a boy in 1907 and came on the ORMUZ
Thats what I have.
H

[AMBLY]

As far as I can make out - Brewood, is a small village in Staffordshire on the Shropshire / Staffordshire border  -  near Shifnal, Shropshire (about 9 miles away) but separated by the River Penk.  The  registration district for Brewood  is Cannock (1877 to 1974), prior to 1877 it was Penkridge. The registration district for Shifnal, is Shifnal (to 1837-1935)
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/STS/Brewood/index.html

He attested in mid Jan 1899?  with stated age 18 yrs and 3 months.
Based on this information being correct ( it may not be!)  - his 18th birthday was approx mid October 1898.   So 1898 - 18 = 1880

If he was born Oct 1880, his birth should be registered Dec Qtr 1880. But  say: Sep Qtr  or Dec Qtr 1880.  However, he may have overstated his age to join up or otherwise told a few fibs which make that kind of 'guessing'  not so helpful !

If you run  FreeBMD Birth search on parishes Cannock, Penkridge and Shifnal  for the period 1871-1885  for William Edward:

There are a number of results - but none with surname SMITH in the period around 1880. The only one with surname SMITH is in 1874, Penkridge.

If you run the same search just on the surname, SMITH, there are a lot of William SMITH entries, including some around the time he has stated he was born.

There are various William SMITH candidates on the Census  but nothing is a good enough match to jump out.  Is there any way you could post a snip of the Army record where it states his  nok. to see if we can agree on the initial of her name?  I don't suppose it gave any address for her?

I see from BMD he married Ada GOODWIN in Whitehaven (Cumberland).
I can only suggest,  without anything more to go on -  that this marriage certificate is the next step in the hopes it gives a father's name,

In Australia, was his age recorded in keeping with being born abt 1879/1880? Does his death certificate or an obituary say anything about his parents.

Cheers
AMBLY

[hely]

Laughing yep he is a problem child!  It does give Mums address which was in 1899 and I should have included that it is Eastgate st.  Stafford Staffordshire I looked in 1901 for her but nothing definite jumped out, I think as he did not live in his dad's house as dad was long dead, guessing though .
Not sure what nok is I am new to this bloody ( sorry I am an Aussi) game.
His army no. is 5929 he went to South Africa in the KSLI and his number was 5929 which was the kings medal because he was there till mid 1902.  Again I should have told you that but I just sent this out as a maybe and now you are trying so Hard I must try to add every little thing I have. We do have his SA Boer War medal so I am sure of his number how I wish someone had asked him this stuff while he was alive, my excuse he is my husband's grand dad, strangely he has a living son in his 90's with no idea of his English Grandparents names grrr.

[AMBLY]

Hi Hely

Will have a ponder over the added info (thanks for that!)

nok - next of kin 

FreeBMD - in case you don't have the full reference for his marriage:
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

My own father (and at least 2 of his siblings) had no idea (or wrong idea) of their grandparents names either , until I told them.  They  were just "Granny" and "Grandad", and that was it! Hard to believe isn't it, when we're digging back through muliple greats and all their history.

My experience, often soon as you find somthing BIG out and reveal the news - the relative who you've asked before & doesn't know,  will say "Oh, yes, he was...she was ... that was...." My Dad's real good at that.

If you can come up with anything in Australia which might record a parents name, it might help? When/Where abouts did he die?

Cheers
AMBLY
(across the ditch from you 

[AMBLY]

Hi Hely

Oh My gosh - first try..... this looks good (but adds more mystery!)

Googled "Eastgate Street Census 1901 Staffordshire" (without quotes)
Hit for Isaiah & Ada Buckley on ref: RG13 /  Piece: 2571 / Folio: 15/ page 22  - living at 4 Copes Building, Eastgate Street, Stafford (on a 2007 Rootschat topic, too!)

Into 1901, search SMITH  with that Piece & Folio nr....

And find the following on the the page before  the Buckley's, carrying over to the same page they're on....

1901: 2 Copes Buildings, Eastgate Street, Stafford (St Mary)
RG13 / Piece: 2571 / Folio: 15 / Page: 21  & 22
Head: Louisa SMITH 57, widow, Charwoman, b Newent, Gloucestershire
Boarder: Robert WINFIELD 57, wid, Tailor, b Birmingham
Boarder: Robert WINFIELD 11, b Stafford

Then:
1891 2 Copes Building, Stafford (St Mary), Staffordshire
RG12 /  Piece: 2138 / Folio 139 / Page 17
Head: Louisa SMITH 46, widow, Charwoman, b Newent, Gloucestershire
Dau: Annie L COOK 24, single, Paste Filler - Shoe Trade, b Newent, Gloucestershire
Dau: Alice M COOK 21, single, no occupation, b Newent, Gloucestershire (diability: Chorea)
Son: Harry J COOK 16, single, Baker, b Llanwarne, Herefordshire
Dau: Louisa A SMITH 12, Scholar, b Stafford
Son: William E SMITH 10, Scholar, b Stafford

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choreia_(disease)

And:
1881: 3 Bell Yard (probably off Foregate St), Stafford St Mary, Staffordshire
RG11 / Piece: 2689 / Folio: 74 / Page: 22
Head: Louisa SMITH 36, marr, Charwoman, b Newent, Gloucestershire
Dau: Annie L COOK 16, b Newent, Gloucestershire
Dau: Louisa A SMITH 2, b Stafford
Son: William E SMITH 6mths, b Stafford
(missing dau Alice and son Harry here)

And baby William E age 6 months as at 3 April 1881 (the date of the census....
....gives approx birth of Oct 1880   

Cheers
AMBLY

[hely]

Thanks
You are right about the big find...and I knew that grrr.
It seems that once leaving England the kids born here knew not much about the relatives left in England.
Now onto your findings.  Seems this Louisa was "married" to a Cook who disappeared. Then to a Smith who did the same, I will look for the Cook.  The family mumble is that William was one of 5 boys and 1 girl but I am a bit of a sceptic on that. 
Ah well they will turn up but I will follow this as far as it takes me.
I some wedding stuff for William when he married Ada Goodwin but no parents names.
Thanks H

[hely]

I keep leaving stuff out,  William was married to Ada Goodwin (I know lots about her and her family) at Morseby church near Whitehaven.  They came with their 1st Child a boy John William to Australia on the ORMUS in 1909.
He died in Rockhampton Queensland in 1966.