Author Topic: William Wainright Lynar and Isabella Semple  (Read 12819 times)

Offline gaffy

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Re: William Wainright Lynar and Isabella Semple
« Reply #36 on: Friday 01 August 25 09:52 BST (UK) »

... I say "This has to be it", for this couple went on to have a son Edward in December 1878 ...
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1879/02934/2075187.pdf

... who in turn married Hannah Taylor at Knock Methodist Church in 1901, the civil record shows his father's name as Alfred and an address in Flora Street which is an exact match for the 1901/1911 census returns:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1909/10023/5645832.pdf


That son of Alfred Lynar and Jane Surgenor sadly died of his wounds in WW1 on 26 October 1914, he was in the Royal Army Medical Corps:

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/20853/e-lynar/

I mention it because page 7 of the Larne Times of 28 November 1914 carried a very short bio for Edward and a good photograph, if anyone is interested in seeing whether or not the "looks" have carried down from the Rev. William King Lynar's line.


Offline ion

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Re: William Wainright Lynar and Isabella Semple
« Reply #37 on: Friday 01 August 25 22:30 BST (UK) »
I suppose Elisa was desparate for support so she travelled from Larne to Whitehead and just abandoned her children there. Surely the community including Dame Isabella must have been aware of Eliza's allegations regarding Revd Lynar, and yet he never recognised his apparent relationship in his will. This suprises me because he had no family in Ireland except his mother as his brothers had emigrated overseas.
I am happy to communicate with Axlehurn should he email me.
Lynar: Dublin/Wicklow
Fawcett: Dublin
Mills, Mills King: Dublin
Semple: Dublin
Exshaw: Dublin
Duggan: Dublin
Heatley: Bray
Sparks: Greenwich London
Merrick : London

Offline ion

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Re: William Wainright Lynar and Isabella Semple
« Reply #38 on: Saturday 02 August 25 07:38 BST (UK) »
Re Alfred Lynar. I had him as a potential connection to my tree as the son of Rowland A F Lynar never thinking his father may have been the Revd Lynar. Alfred married Martha Jemphrey as shown in the census returns and they had 4 children Roland, David, Hugh and Alfred. There was another child Edward born to Alfred's first wife Jane Surgener (married 5 Aug 1878) born 27 Dec 1878. Edward is not with his father on census night 1901, perhaps with his mother Jane. Edward marries Hannah Taylor in 1909 and moves out of the Flora St address. Alfred and his sons work at the ship yard Harland and Wolff in Belfast where the Titanic was completed in 1912.
David married Rachel Bennett and had 4 children, Roland (Roly),Alfred Edgar, Hugh, and Monica.
Roland (Roly) died August 2007 as reported in the Belfast Telegraph and is survived by his daughter whom I tried to find without success. There is a photo of him in a Freemason journal "The Banner" March 2003 Issue 2 page 12.
Hugh and Monica may have travelled to Canada in 1957. Dont know if they emigrated.
Lynar: Dublin/Wicklow
Fawcett: Dublin
Mills, Mills King: Dublin
Semple: Dublin
Exshaw: Dublin
Duggan: Dublin
Heatley: Bray
Sparks: Greenwich London
Merrick : London

Online scotmum

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"As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don’t know we don’t know."  - Donald Rumsfeld

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Offline axlehurn

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Re: William Wainright Lynar and Isabella Semple
« Reply #40 on: Saturday 02 August 25 09:09 BST (UK) »
There is a little more information on Alfred Lynar in the RAMC record
https://www.ramc-ww1.com/profile.php?cPath=274_107&profile_id=11695&osCsid=3trdfhd5bkt8dltt2635lvjie5, plus a very poor photograph

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Re: William Wainright Lynar and Isabella Semple
« Reply #41 on: Saturday 02 August 25 09:21 BST (UK) »

Hugh and Monica may have travelled to Canada in 1957. Dont know if they emigrated.

Possibly Monica's death notice in 2021 (mention of various family members in the messages below the notice):

https://www.catholic-cemeteries.ca/obituary/monica-winifred-lynar/
"As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don’t know we don’t know."  - Donald Rumsfeld

"Trees without roots fall over!"
 
""People who never look backward to their ancestors will never look forward to posterity." - Edmund Burke

Don't just wait for the storm to pass, learn to dance in the rain.

Offline gaffy

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Re: William Wainright Lynar and Isabella Semple
« Reply #42 on: Saturday 02 August 25 09:22 BST (UK) »
You'll find several "Lynars" and "Lyners" in the Belfast City Council burials website, I've only glanced at them, but because we now know that the surname is rare and suspect that all of the ones found so far in Belfast and South East Antrim are a cluster connected through William K. Lynar and Elizabeth Glover, I would imagine that they are all relevant:

https://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/births-deaths-and-ceremonies/burial-records/search-for-a-burial-record

Olivia Jane and the mother Elizabeth are in a Costley grave on the same website.


Offline gaffy

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Re: William Wainright Lynar and Isabella Semple
« Reply #43 on: Saturday 02 August 25 20:12 BST (UK) »

... I am interested in reading the full newspaper articles and hearing further research. Life was difficult in those times.


I have pm'ed you regarding how to access those articles.


Offline gaffy

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Re: William Wainright Lynar and Isabella Semple
« Reply #44 on: Sunday 03 August 25 01:04 BST (UK) »
On top of the evidence indicating the connection between William King Lynar, Eliza Glover, and the children Alfred, Olivia Jane and Jonathon Joseph, here are another couple of references that corroborate the sibling relationship between the two surviving children Alfred and Olivia Jane and suggest continuing contact between the respective families years later. The first reference is the death notice for Alfred in the Belfast Telegraph of 13 August 1923: 

LYNER - August 12, 1923, at his residence, 26 Flora Street, Alfred, the dearly loved and loving husband of Martha Lyner.  His remains will be removed from the above address for interment in Dundonald Cemetery, on Tuesday, the 14th inst., at 2.30 p.m. "Safe in the arms of Jesus." Deeply regretted by his sorrowing Wife and Sons, Daughters-in-law, and Grandchildren, also Sister and Brother-in-law and Nephew.  MARTHA LYNER.

So as well as Alfred's own family, the only other relations getting a mention were a "Sister and Brother-in-law and Nephew", a description that is consistent with the only other relatives we have evidence of in this story so far, namely Olivia and Edmund Costley whose only child was a son - William John - and therefore a nephew to Alfred. It would have been nice if the Costleys had actually been named, still, from the way its written I'm pretty confident that it's them.

The second reference relates to Alfred's son Edward.  The Belfast Newsletter of 25 November 1914 reported the death of Edward Lynar from his war wounds and said that he "was a member of Roe Memorial Total Abstinence L.O.L. 938, Ballymacarrett". Working back from that, on 25 February 1911, the Belfast Weekly Telegraph reported on a social evening held by the Roe Memorial L.O.L. No. 938, at which one of the ladies mentioned as presiding at the tea tables was a Mrs. Costley.  There was also mention of a Br. Edward Lyner contributing to the programme (of entertainment) and a Br. Edmund Costley being the Secretary of the Lodge.  The same newspaper of 16 February 1911, covering a reunion of members of the Roe Memorial L.O.L. 938, named the secretary as Br. Edmund J. Costley and mentioned that Br. Edward Lyner provided a recitation as part of the musical programme.

Now if these were run-of-the-mill names, it would be no great deal, but given how VERY rare - if not unique - these specific forename/surname combinations were (as can be verified by the 1911 Ireland census), I think it is way beyond mere co-incidence that they should appear together in the one context and to me it indicates the probability that Olivia Jane Costley's family and Alfred Lynar's family knew each other and occasionally interacted/associated.