Borrill family from Belchford, Horncastle

[fordofcrows]

Hello folks,

I know this is an extremely long shot but I wonder if anyone can help me identify the people in this photograph.  It is a family photo of the Borrill family from Belchford, Horncastle.  In later years the Borrills settled in Louth, Lincolnshire.

A good starting point would be to be able to date the photograph and I wonder if anyone could tell me which regiment or war the soldier would have served in.

I think the soldier may be John Thomas Borrill (b. 1876) who fought in the Boer War but I can find very little details about him.

The old couple are the parents of some of the older men.  These old people I think, are John Borrill b. 1823 Belchford, Horncastle and Mary Goddard b. 1822 Belchford, Horncastle.

Somewhere in the photo I think is William Borrill b. 1848 Belchford, Horncastle.

Like I say, I know this is all a longshot but I am hoping that some Borrill researchers may be able to help.   I tried Ancestry to no avail.

Best wishes to you all and thank you for any help or pointers, at all.

David

[Geoff-E]

These would seem to put a later limit on the date of the photo
Deaths Dec 1893 
BORRILL    John    (69)    Horncastle    7a   390
Deaths Mar 1894
BORRILL    Mary    (70)    Horncastle    7a   381

Is it WW1 and that is William (late 60s) and Hannah (early 50s)?  She still has dark hair.

[Ermintrude46]

I agree with Geoff re the WW1 dating - those rounded shirt collars that the older sons are wearing are typical of that period.  And the fact the the solider is in the centre of the family group points to it being an enlistment photo - the other sons are either too young to join up or (in the case of the oldest) married with children and not yet subject to conscription.
Ermy

[macintosh]

There is something obscuring the soldiers hat badge but from the general outline that is available with magnification I would guess possibly Lincolnshire Yeomanry. certainly the bandolier is an indication of a mounted soldier, Yeomanry, Cavalry Gunner, Driver etc.

FYI there is a JW Borrill, Lincolnshire Regiment on the CWGC Site who was killed 5.7.1916 the husband of Mrs C BORRILL, 13 Prospect Place, Market Rasen Lincs, maybe you have looked at the CWGC  site.
I agree with Ermintrude that it is possibly an enlistment pic.

Good Luck in your search

James

[macintosh]

Perhaps the Moderator may consider sending this to the ARMED FORCES BOARD for the experts there to look at the pic of the soldier?

James

[fordofcrows]

I can't believe how incredibly helpful you have all been.  Thank you.

I will take each answer in turn starting with GeoffE.  Having thought about it and considered your very valid points, I agree with your theory that it is most likely William & Hannah. Hannah died in 1959 so rewind to roughly WW1 period of 1914 and Hannah b. 1865, would be, like you say GeoffE, in about her late forties/early fifties.

Ermy - thank you for your reply.  Those points you mention provide more evidence to support the theory that it's taken around 1914.  Was it typical for a soldier to have an enlistment photo done with his family?

James - you have given me much food for thought and I will be Googling like a madman when I've finished these replies.  I will check out the service records (if they survived) of JW Borrill.  There's a Walter Borrill b. 1889 (which would make him 25yrs old in 1914) and a Joseph Borrill b. 1906 (he would be too young to fight in the war).  I think the small boy on the right could be Joseph by that reckoning.

Thank you all for your help and suggestions.  It's not often one gets chance to possess such an amazing photograph as this, and it would be such a shame not to know who all of the people are.

Best wishes,

David

 

[fordofcrows]

PS: I will update you all on my findings once I've worked it all out and it will be a handy reference for any other Borrill researchers.

Best wishes,

David

[Ermintrude46]

Having a photo taken was a real occasion for ordinary families, it was expensive so restricted to special occasions or times when a momento might be needed, so enlistment photos were common - I have two in my family album from WW1.  My maternal great-grandparents had their photo taken with their two young children to give to family members when they moved down from Durham to Kent in 1882 - they never went back up North and, apart from a photo of my great-grandmother taken in old age in the mid-1930s, that is the only known photo of them. 

If Walter is one of your Borrills, this could be his wife and the baby boy in the photo:

Marriages Sep 1910
Borrill  Walter    Louth  7a 1351 
Kirk  Frances M     Louth  7a 1351

Births Sep 1912 
Borrill  Thomas W  (mmn)Kirk  Louth  7a 1038

I would strongly recommend you searching the 1911 census, that may well find Walter and his wife together with other siblings and help to narrow down who the soldier is 
Ermy

[fordofcrows]

Thanks for getting back to me, Ermy.  I am still not much closer to identifying the people in the photo but some new information has come to light - although how reliable it is, I cannot say.  I am told that my great grandmother, Florence Mary Borrill b. 1892, is in this photograph.

If we are to take it that this picture was taken around 1914 then Florence would be about 22 years old.  Now, I know for definite that the lady on the right of the photograph is not my grandmother - I have seen pictures of Florence when she was young and she looked nothing like this lady.

The elderly lady, is I am quite sure, her mother, Hannah Pogmore.  The elderly man next to her will be William Borrill, Florence's father.  This only leaves the little girl on the left who could be Florence and she did look like her in the photo's I have seen of her in her later years (only less scary looking!).

So, if that is Florence then she looks about 9 or 10 years old - which would date the photo as being taken in about 1902.  This would be at around the time of the end of the 2nd Boer War.  Now, notice how the soldier looks more tanned than the rest of the people?  Could it be possible that he has just returned from Africa?

John Thomas Borrill b. 1876 was Florence's half brother - from William Borrill's previous marriage to Mary Fisher (she died), and John was  16 year's older than Florence, which would make him in his mid twenties in this photograph.

I Googled "John Thomas Borrill" and the first search result came up informing me that there was a man with that name who served in the 7th Battalion Australian Commonwealth Horse Regiment(!) during the Boer Conflict in Africa  I would have dismissed this as just a coincidence - same name but different person, but I remembered what James said `certainly the bandolier is an indication of a mounted soldier'.

If this is the right JTB then according to the website (am I allowed to post links? Maybe not) he is `245 Trumpeter John Thomas BORRILL'.

This is where I get really stuck because my knowledge of wars and uniforms is quite scant and even with the use of the internet, I struggle to tell one uniform from another.  And at the risk of making myself look foolish by showing my ignorance - is it possible that an Englishman could find himself fighting in an Autralian regiment?

Well, I will leave it here for now because no one likes reading long posts, but thanks for helping Ermy and everyone else.

David