HELP ? Sir William Wallace

[Skoosh]

William, re' Wallace being of Welsh ancestry. Southern Scotland was at one time a British kingdom, Welsh was the language spoken in Strathclyde as the placenames show. The language was probably still spoken in parts of SW Scotland in Wallace's time.     Skoosh.

[Aulyin]

"the seal which was sent on a letter to Lubeck after the battle of Stirling Bridge named Wallace's real father as Allan Wallace,"

William Wallace said his father was Allan Wallace.
Surely that means that Allan Wallace was William's father; end of story?

[bobconner2]

I'm with the father being Alan, but who is his mother then???

[Stephen123]

G’day, we have discovered Wallace ancestors in our family tree living in Ayrshire in the late 1700’s.

We’ve not been as lucky as other posters who have managed to trace so far back in time, but we are interested to find out more about any other later Wallace generations please.

Do you know for sure that Sir William Wallace was born in Elderslie?

My ancestor Sara Wallace (record attached) was baptised 1793 in Mauchline Ayreshire (30 miles south of Elderslie) to Robert Wallace and Agnes Adamson. We estimate Robert Wallace was born sometime between 1772 to 1775, but we’re not 100% sure who his parents were.

Sara Wallace and her husband lived in Govan between 1819 to 1825, about 9 miles east of Elderslie.

Robert Wallace lived in Galstone at one point in time, about 26 miles south of Elderslie.

Any help with the Wallace clan would be appreciated.

Regards,
Stephen

[Forfarian]

Re Wallace being of Welsh ancestry. Southern Scotland was at one time a British kingdom, Welsh was the language spoken in Strathclyde as the placenames show.

The surname Wallace is from the same root as the word 'Welsh'. Basically, it means ' a foreigner' or 'a stranger', and it crops up, with variations, all over Europe.

This is what the Oxford English Dictionary says: Cognate with Old Frisian walsk ‘French’ (rare), Old High German walesg , walisc , walahisc ‘Latin’, ‘Romance’ (Middle High German walhisch , welhisch , walsch , welsch ‘Italian’, ‘French’, ‘Romance’; German welsch , in the same senses), Middle Dutch walsc ‘French’, ‘Italian’, ‘Walloon’, ‘speaking a Romance language, especially French’ (Dutch waalsch ‘Walloon’, ‘speaking a Romance language, especially French’), Middle Low German Walsch , Wallesch ‘Romance, especially Italian’, Old Icelandic valskr ‘foreign, especially French’, Old Swedish valsker ‘French’, ‘Italian’, ‘from a southern country’, ‘foreign’ (Swedish välsk ), Danish vælsk ‘from a Romance-speaking country, especially Italian or (sometimes) French’, (also) ‘Welsh’ < the Germanic base of Old English Wealh , Walh (see note below) + Germanic base of -ish suffix1. Compare post-classical Latin Waliscus , Walliscus (1086 in Domesday Book; c1114 in a Latin version of the early Old English Laws of Ine: compare quot. eOE at Welshman n. 1aα. ), Anglo-Norman Waleis , Walais , Gualeis , Galays , etc., Old French galeis , galeis , (northern) walois , walesche (French gallois ) (adjective) ‘Welsh’ (c1170), (noun) ‘Welsh person’, ‘the Welsh language’ (both 1155), ‘the French language’ (c1283, only in Old French and Middle French in areas bordering Germanic speaking territories). Compare also post-classical Latin Wallensis , Gualensis , Galensis (from 1086 in British sources), Valicus , Wallicus (from 1252 in British sources), both adjectives in sense ‘Welsh’, Wallus , Guallus (adjective) ‘Welsh’, (noun) ‘Welshman’ (from a1142 in British sources), etc.

So even Gaul and Gallic, and de Gaulle, are from the same root. And I believe that the surname Guelph or Welf is also connected.

So while it is true that the surname 'Wallace' basically means 'Welsh', it isn't evidence that he is actually a descendant of someone who came fromwhat we would now call Wales. The word would be used by the Anglian population of Lothian and Northumbria to describe a speaker of the British language from the south-west of Scotland.

PS the modern German-speaking wine industry uses a type of grape they call 'Welschriesling', indicating that it is a 'foreign' stock.

[Skoosh]

Folks, a potted history, with maps,  of the languages of Scotland, http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/arts-and-culture

Skoosh

[Forfarian]

Excellent, Skoosh. Thank you.

[KneClel]

Kneland or Cleland pronounced Cleeland or Kneeland with K pronounced. its a strathclyde briton name.  Family is not related to Clelland family which comes from McClelland McLellan and from that Gilfillan meaning Son of the Servant to the Abbot meaning St. Fillan

I would say that Wallace would be Strathclyde name as they spoke a Welsh Briton language spoken in Strathclyde.  But would different from Wales, Welsh language

if your Agnes is Cleland and not Clelland and that you line goes back to Alexander Kneland of that Ilk (meaning Cleland of Cleland) then you are related to Sir William Wallace as Alexander married Margaret Wallace how was Aunt to Sir William Wallace and it was James Kneland how fought along side Wallace.

my family were charge art and part in Murder of Lord Darnely Mary Queen of Scot's husband

Marriage - It is not known for certain if William Wallace was married or not, or if he had children.  His killing of the Sheriff of Lanark in 1297 is believed to have been as vengeance for the murder of his wife, Marion Braidfute.  This is not true as this comes from a later version of the poem story that the family paid to have there name put into it. 1st version does not say anything about wife, Marion Braidfute.
 
KneClel

[Rufous Treecreeper]

I think that Adam Wallace is most probably William Wallace's father because William says he is. 

Although, in researching the Crawfords' I found interesting information about Wallace's mother (Margaret Crawfurd according to Clan Crawford, sister of the Sheriff of Ayr) and the Crawfords links to William Wallace but they claim Malcolm Wallace as the father 

Mo

http://www.clancrawford.org/pers.asp#4

and scroll down to "The Wars of Independence" for William Wallace info http://www.clancrawford.org/hist.asp