Author Topic: HELP ? Sir William Wallace  (Read 16648 times)

Offline taggg

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HELP ? Sir William Wallace
« on: Tuesday 28 September 10 15:38 BST (UK) »
HELP

In doing my research on my family tree i have come across the possibility that i am related to William Wallace going from John McKinnon`s Mother Agnes Clelland to Kneland to wallace, eventually getting to Adam Wallace, who is my 25th Great grandfather?
making William Wallace my 1st cousin 25 x removed????.
 
My question is was William Wallaces father Alan or Sir Malcolm as there seems to be some confusion over this, during my research i have come across this passage.

"Born - While his date of birth is taken as 1272 in many sources, there is no firm evidence to support any date.  Indeed a range of dates of 1260 to 1278 have been used, that's 18 years of a difference!

Father - His father is generally taken to be Sir Malcolm Wallace of Elderslie in Paisley.  He was a descendant of a Richard Wallace, or "le Waleis" " the Welshman - who had come to Scotland to serve in the royal household of King David I in the early part of the 12th century.  Blind Harry states that Sir Malcolm was William Wallace's father. However, there is evidence that his father might have been another man: Alan Wallace.  Wallace's seal on the "Lubeck Letter", the letter Wallace and Andrew Murray sent as Guardians in 1297, says "William, son of Alan Wallace".  There is also an Alan Wallace on the Ragman Roll. (The Ragman Roll being the record of those Scottish landowners who swore loyalty to Edward I in 1296.) As this Alan Wallace is listed on the Roll as being from Ayr, it could be that William Wallace may well have been born in Ellerslie, which is near Kilmarnock, and not Elderslie near Paisley.

Family - It is known that Wallace had 2 brothers: Malcolm and John who were also involved in the struggle.  John died in London in similar circumstances to that of his brother.

Marriage - It is not known for certain if William Wallace was married or not, or if he had children.  His killing of the Sheriff of Lanark in 1297 is believed to have been as vengeance for the murder of his wife, Marion Braidfute. "

I am now at a loss as to which is the correct father Alan or Sir Malcolm.

Any help appreciated

Regards

William
Taggart, Stewart,Wright, Gordon, Baxter, Caldwell, Wilson, Workman, Leckie,Johnstone, Christie,
Taggarts Shilvodan N Ireland .McKay, McKinnon, Clelland, wilson.

Offline WILLIAM 1

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Re: HELP ? Sir William Wallace
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 28 September 10 18:46 BST (UK) »
brown family mcclinton (and variants), mcfarlane, buchanan,murray,caskie(and variants) hay family. mcpherson family.mckenzie.whiteside.nichol

Offline sancti

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Re: HELP ? Sir William Wallace
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 28 September 10 22:33 BST (UK) »
That's a fine piece of researching getting so far back. I can only get to 1786 on my tree  :(

Offline maddymoss

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Re: HELP ? Sir William Wallace
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 29 September 10 11:10 BST (UK) »
Perhaps you might find this old Grampian Club book from the Harvard Library of interest?  The Wallace family is second or third down.


Offline taggg

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Re: HELP ? Sir William Wallace
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 29 September 10 11:15 BST (UK) »
William1

Both of those links give two fathers or am i reading it wrong ????

This is what i am trying to clarify or is just a case of it may be one or the other ????

Regards

William
Taggart, Stewart,Wright, Gordon, Baxter, Caldwell, Wilson, Workman, Leckie,Johnstone, Christie,
Taggarts Shilvodan N Ireland .McKay, McKinnon, Clelland, wilson.

Offline still_looking

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Re: HELP ? Sir William Wallace
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 29 September 10 12:38 BST (UK) »
Doubt this will answer your question but it clarifies how much documentation is out there:

http://www.nas.gov.uk/about/100604.asp

Offline WILLIAM 1

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Re: HELP ? Sir William Wallace
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 29 September 10 13:15 BST (UK) »
no you are reading it right
but i have always been told that his father
was not a lord
and that wallace went to the crusades
and bruce never left scotland
and i was always told that wallace and bruce
never ever meet. one another at all
and that wallace was born in elderslie
there is a monument for him there as well
and i used to know the family that shopped
wallace to the english and it was in glasgow
as well. they still stay in lanark scotland
all they did was change there last name

he was betrayed and captured by another Scot, Sir John de Menteith.
they are now montheith. o and they also hate rob roy as well

(born c. 1270, , probably near Paisley, Renfrew, Scot.—died Aug. 23, 1305, London, Eng.) one of Scotland's greatest national heroes, leader of the Scottish resistance forces during the first years of the long, and ultimately successful, struggle to free Scotland from English rule.

His father, Sir Malcolm Wallace, was a small landowner in Renfrew. In 1296 King Edward I of England deposed and imprisoned the Scottish king John de Balliol and declared himself ruler of Scotland. Sporadic resistance had already occurred when, in May 1297, Wallace and a band of some 30 men burned Lanark and killed its English sheriff. Wallace then organized an army of commoners and small landowners and attacked the English garrisons between the Rivers Forth and Tay. On Sept. 11, 1297, an English army under John de Warenne, earl of Surrey, confronted him at the Forth near Stirling. Wallace's forces were greatly outnumbered, but Surrey had to cross a narrow bridge over the Forth before he could reach the Scottish positions. By slaughtering the English as they crossed the river, Wallace gained an overwhelming victory. He captured Stirling Castle, and for the moment Scotland was nearly free of occupying forces. In October he invaded northern England and ravaged the counties of Northumberland and Cumberland.

Upon returning to Scotland early in December 1297, Wallace was knighted and proclaimed guardian of the kingdom, ruling in Balliol's name. Nevertheless, many nobles lent him only grudging support; and he had yet to confront Edward I, who was campaigning in France. Edward returned to England in March 1298, and on July 3 he invaded Scotland. On July 22 Wallace's spearmen were defeated by Edward's archers and cavalry in the Battle of Falkirk, Stirling. Although Edward failed to pacify Scotland before returning to England, Wallace's military reputation was ruined. He resigned his guardianship in December and was succeeded by Robert de Bruce (later King Robert I) and Sir John Comyn “the Red.”

There is some evidence that Wallace went to France in 1299 and thereafter acted as a solitary guerrilla leader in Scotland; but from the autumn of 1299 nothing is known of his activities for more than four years. Although most of the Scottish nobles submitted to Edward in 1304, the English continued to pursue Wallace relentlessly. On Aug. 5, 1305, he was arrested near Glasgow. Taken to London, he was condemned as a traitor to the king even though, as he maintained, he had never sworn allegiance to Edward. He was hanged, disemboweled, beheaded, and quartered. In 1306 Bruce raised the rebellion that eventually won independence for Scotland.

Many of the stories surrounding Wallace have been traced to a late 15th-century romance ascribed to Henry the Minstrel, or “Blind Harry.” The most popular tales are not supported by documentary evidence, but they show Wallace's firm hold on the imagination of his people. A huge monument (1861–69) to Wallace stands atop the rock of Abbey Craig near Stirling.
brown family mcclinton (and variants), mcfarlane, buchanan,murray,caskie(and variants) hay family. mcpherson family.mckenzie.whiteside.nichol

Offline Aulyin

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Re: HELP ? Sir William Wallace
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 28 December 10 11:41 GMT (UK) »
If the royal tenant Alan on the Ragman Roll was indeed the father of William Wallace, would this not put him south of the river Ayr, in Kyle Regis? Not in Kyle Stewart or Cunningham.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/learningzone/clips/wallaces-birthplace/4695.html
Quote
Wallace's Birthplace Duration: 01:49 Historians have presumed that Wallace was the son of Sir Malcolm Wallace of Elderslie and was born in Ayrshire. The basis for this was a poem written 150 years after the time of Wallace by a minstrel called Blind Harry. Examination of the seal which was sent on a letter to Lubeck after the battle of Stirling Bridge named Wallace's real father as Allan Wallace, a royal tenant living in Ayrshire at that time. This clip has subtitles available in Flash.

As far as I can see, this is the first solid evidence of Wallaces parenthood but it seems to be getting ignored.

Offline magsx1

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Re: HELP ? Sir William Wallace
« Reply #8 on: Friday 15 April 11 14:51 BST (UK) »
I have a family tree with William Wallce being born in Elderslie, Renfrew in 1270
son of Malcolm Wallace born in Renfrew 1240
son of Adam Wallace born Elderslie,Renfrew 1223
son of Adam Wallace born Riccarton , Ayr 1202