Help navigating Irish records - Daly/Hare marriage

[peterfelgate]

I seem to be running round in circles at the pilot.familyhistory and rootsireland.ie sites tracing Irish ancestors. Could someone offer guidance?  This is my first delve into Irish records.

I am seeking the marriage of Michael Daly to Mary Hare, the best guess as to their birth dates being 1822 and 1827, and then their respective births.  I believe the marriage may have been in Ireland as I can find no trace in the English BMD records.  They moved to England some time before 1856 when their daughter was born in Bishops Stortford. They had an older son William who consistently claimed to have been born in Woolwich around 1853, but again tracking his birth in the BMD records has proved fruitless so far (though there is one possibility with a surname of Dacey...). 

As Michael was a Hawker, I have only a few census returns to go on for him, for 1861, 1891 and 1901 (when he was probably senile as he died as such in 1903).  In the 1891 census he claims he was born in Roscommon.  Regarding Mary, she is quoted to have been born in Tipperary in one census, and Cork in another.

Using the sites quoted, and depending on what I put in, I either get one partner but not the other to potential marriages, or inconsistent information each time I search.  What am I doing wrong?

In a response to another query someone has found a Michael Daly born 1819 Roscommon, but I can't seem to find him myself.

[shanew147]

What religion were the family ?

This is important as if they were Catholic there will be no civil marriage record for a marriage before 1864. For earlier records you need to research parish records, and to do this you first need to know the family religion, and where they lived - i.e. town, townland or parish. The rootsireland website does not include all counties or parishes, and it's also worth noting that not all records survive - so it's important to know a location so that you can check what's available for the parish you are interested in.

Have a look at : Introduction to Irish Records



Shane

[peterfelgate]

Thanks for the link; I have looked at that page before but I probably need to re-read it now I have had a go at using the sites.

I have NO IDEA as to their religion.  It is certainly true that their son William was/became a Protestant, marrying at least twice in Anglican churches in England (I am not sure about his third marriage), which suggests his parents were also Protestant.  I cannot trace a marriage for his sister Ellen to see what religion she was.  I will see if I can trace any sign of a christening for William or Ellen which might help.  The family seemed to move around quite a bit  (Woolwich 1853, Bishop Stortford 1856, Moulsham 1861) (and Michael was not with them in 1861) so tracing where any christening might have been will be a struggle.

[shanew147]

I would think that with quite common surnames like Daly and Hare you will need to establish a probable place of marriage and/or baptism (i.e. parish) to progress any useful search in Ireland... there could have been many Michael Daly's in Ireland at the time, and it would be very easy to end up linking up with the wrong family.


Shane

[peterfelgate]

Given the information I have is all I have to go on (there are no family traditions as to origins etc and no surviving relatives who might know any more), and has been gleaned solely from the English BMD and a few certificates, have you any suggestions as to further sources I might consult to narrow down the search?

[shanew147]

Given the early dates I think the most likely source for a clue to location will be in English records. You've mentioned searching census returns for Michael & Mary - but maybe extending that for other family members that may have travelled over the England with them or soon after..  to see if you can possible place of birth details that way. Sometimes relations appear as witnesses/sponsors on marriages/baptism etc.

Other possible sources might include wills, probate etc


Shane

[peterfelgate]

Thanks for that.  As I can't find their son William's birth in England, I used his sister Ellen's birth certificate to get their mother's maiden name (the only reference I have).  I can't locate Michael's whereabouts in three censuses in England; his wife Mary I can find in 1861 and 1871 but not after William got married (and I think she died in 1879) so I am not confident of finding much more.  Ellen was a witness to her brother's first marriage in 1873 but not his second (where he legged it to Islington to marry his dead wife's sister, something not allowed by the CofE) and she can't be located readily after then in the BMD records or in census returns.  As far as I can tell, there were no other children surviving - there's William and Ellen aged 7 and 4 in the 1861 census, then the two of them in 1871 aged 17 and 14 in roughly the same area, and no other children with them and their mother.

Michael died a senile pauper having spent at least 12 years in a Union Workhouse and Mary at least was illiterate (and I suspect Michael was as well, as he is down as "Micle Dalle" in the 1861 census...) so I don't hold out much hope for any wills.

My realistic line of attack is see if William John Daley's birth can be located in England somewhere!

Thanks for your guidance.

[snowyw]

In a response to another query someone has found a Michael Daly born 1819 Roscommon, but I can't seem to find him myself.

Log into Roots Ireland
Select Baptismal records
Then put Michael Daly in the search section
Add the year.
Tick Roscommon
Bingo!

[shanew147]

How do you know that's the right Michael Daly ?


Shane