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Author Topic: carlisle birth  (Read 1056 times)

Offline taylorkit

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carlisle birth
« on: Sunday 12 September 10 22:57 BST (UK) »
anyone know of a harry riches born carlisle circa 1832 and lived in chesterfield , derbyshire

Offline Sherazard

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Re: carlisle birth
« Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 11:54 »
Hi, I am also looking for any new info on Harry/Henry Riches/Richards.

He appears in the 1881 England census age 49 with wife Hannah (nee Madin) and several daughters (some from Hannah's previous relationship with an Abraham Morris) working as a "bottle caser at pottery".

He is also on daughter Hannah Elizabeth's marriage certificate when she marries Edward Lomas in 1897, occupation basket maker.

Online fiddlerslass

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Re: carlisle birth
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 12:41 »
Have you seen this 1871 entry, boarding with William and Sarah Crowder in Newbold Derbyshire? Seems to be flexible regarding his age!

Name    Henry Rithes, basket maker, married
Age    54
Estimated Birth Year    1817
Relation    Boarder

 born    Carlisle

Civil parish    Newbold



Registration District    Chesterfield
Sub-registration district    Chesterfield
ED, institution, or vessel    20
Household schedule number    151
Piece    3612
Folio    41
Page number    26

Not found him earlier yet.
Bulman, DUR
Butterfield DUR & N. YKS,
Earnshaw DUR
Hopps DUR & N. YKS
Howe, Richardson,Thompson all DUR

William Thompson violin maker Bishop Auckland
William Thompson jun. Violin maker Leeds

Richardson in Bermondsey/East Ham, descendants of William Richardson b. 1820 Bishop Auckland

Berger, Bareš, Fritsch, Ritschel, Pechanz, Funke, Endesfelder, Straka & others from Czechia

Offline Sherazard

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Re: carlisle birth
« Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 12:53 »
fiddlerslass - thank you, that's an interesting find. It might raise more questions than it answers.

If it is our man, why is he boarding if he's married? The age discrepancy is fairly wide, too. I will add it to the "maybe" pile as there are several things there that do align with other info.

Online fiddlerslass

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Re: carlisle birth
« Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 12:58 »
There are several scenarios which could explain why he was boarding:

He was separated from his wife.

He is widowed and mistakenly is listed as married.


He is new to the area and wants to establish himself before his wife joins him there.
Bulman, DUR
Butterfield DUR & N. YKS,
Earnshaw DUR
Hopps DUR & N. YKS
Howe, Richardson,Thompson all DUR

William Thompson violin maker Bishop Auckland
William Thompson jun. Violin maker Leeds

Richardson in Bermondsey/East Ham, descendants of William Richardson b. 1820 Bishop Auckland

Berger, Bareš, Fritsch, Ritschel, Pechanz, Funke, Endesfelder, Straka & others from Czechia

Offline Sherazard

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Re: carlisle birth
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 13:01 »
True, I feel it's possible that there was some volatility in the relationship.

Also possible he didn't like authority much and was fond of giving inaccurate answers. I've been unable to find birth or marriage records for him. Shall persevere!

Online fiddlerslass

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Re: carlisle birth
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 13:21 »
Just a theory..

I am wondering if he came from a Romani background as basket making was a typical occupation. There were groups of Romani around Cumbria (handy for Appleby horse fair) and the Scottish lowlands and they had links to the potteries. This is from Wikipedia

"Romanichal traders in Scotland were upwardly mobile. By 1830, they travelled to the potteries in Staffordshire, buying china and other goods and selling the items chiefly in Northumberland while based in Kirk Yetholm in Roxburghshire."

Chesterfield is not too out of the way if traveling south!

Have you done DNA?
Bulman, DUR
Butterfield DUR & N. YKS,
Earnshaw DUR
Hopps DUR & N. YKS
Howe, Richardson,Thompson all DUR

William Thompson violin maker Bishop Auckland
William Thompson jun. Violin maker Leeds

Richardson in Bermondsey/East Ham, descendants of William Richardson b. 1820 Bishop Auckland

Berger, Bareš, Fritsch, Ritschel, Pechanz, Funke, Endesfelder, Straka & others from Czechia

Offline softly softly

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Re: carlisle birth
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 13:21 »
1871 transcibed on FindMyPast as RISHES

SS

Offline Sherazard

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Re: carlisle birth
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 13:28 »
That is a fascinating theory! I have done the DNA tests on several sites, no ethnicities come up other than English/Irish/Scottish/Welsh on all of them, and a touch of Scandanavian/Danish on one. I am not sure how Romani might show up.

Harry was my 2nd great-grandfather so I imagine that's close enough that anything he had is likely to show up in me to some degree.
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