Thomas Griffiths-Llanddewi Brefi

[Dannemois]

On the 1861 census for Llanddewi Brefi Thomas Griffiths was head of the household, aged 42, grocer and draper, place of birth, Gwynfil.  Wife Hannah [35] and daughter Elizabeth [9] both born Gorwydd were also listed.  Sisters Catherine Lewis [15] and Jane Lewis [13] my great aunts, were employed as house servants.   

Out of curiosity; can some one please do a look-up on the 1851 and possible the 1871 census for Thomas Griffiths and family.

Thanks in advance

[hanes teulu]

No luck finding Thomas/Hannah together in '51.

FreeBMD has the marriage of Thomas Griffiths, Sep 1851, Tregaron, 27 29. On the same page is a Hannah Lewis.

Might this be your Thomas & Hannah  - or have you already established they were together at the time of the '51 Census?

Not sure about Jane and Catherine being Hannah's sisters ie

1851 Census
David Lewis, Head, 59, Weaver, St Peters Carm
Mary Anne Lewis, Wife, 36, Dressmaker, Llanddewibrefi
Mary Lewis, Dau, 13, App Dressmaker,            "
Hannah Lewis, Dau, 10 ,                        "
David Lewis, Son, 7,                                         "
Catherine Lewis, Dau, 5                               "
Jane Lewis, Dau, 3,                                          "
Micah Lewis, Son, 11mths                                "
Charles James, Lodger, Widower, Chelsea Pensioner, Llandilo


1851 Census HO107 2487 274 14
Micah Lewis, head, 59, Shopman, Town, Carms
Elizabeth Lewis, Wife, 58, Town Carms
Hannah Lewis, Dau, 26, llanddewibrefi
Richard Joseph, Serv, 37, Llanfarddydegau
William Joseph, G/Son, 11, Llanddewibrefi
John Joseph, G/Son, 8,               "
Margaret Jones, Serv, 28,          "

Hannah, age 26, fits the Hannah married to Thomas in 1861. Hannah, aged 10, living with Jane and Catherine in 1851 would not appear to be the Hannah married to Thomas and living with Jane and Catherine in 1851..

Any thoughts?


   

[Dannemois]

That is a very good possible for Hannah daughter of Micah & Elizabeth Lewis and I have to agree it is more like a very good probable.  Catherine and Jane Lewis had a younger brother named Micah Lewis and their grandfather could possible be Micah Lewis.  This would make Hannah a relative to the girlsWell done, no doubt I would have got to searching Hannah at some point, a result sooner than expected. 

What chances of finding Thomas Griffiths on the 1851 census for Llanddewi Brefi
Many thanks

[hanes teulu]

Possibility?

1851 Census HO107 2487 282 28

Elinor Griffiths, Head, Widow, 60, Llanddewibrefi
Thomas Griffiths, Son, Unm, 30, Cattle Drover, Llanddewibrefi
Address Tanyrallt

In view of Thomas' occupation in '61 (grocer/draper) checked historical Directories 1850 - 1860. Couldn't find a Thomas Griffiths but there were several Lewis' - did he marry into a shop owning family?

Slater's Directory Glos...Wales 1859
Lewis, Anna Betha, grocer, draper and saddler, Llanddewi, Tregaron
Lewis, John, draper, ironmonger etc, Llanddewi, Tregaron

Slater's Directory Glos...Wales 1868
Lewis, Betha & Son, Grocers and drapers, Llanddewi, Tregaron
Lewis, John, grocers and drapers, Llanddewi, Tregaron

regards

[Dannemois]

The occupation of the Lewis's in the line I'm researching were 'weavers' so I can't throw any light on whether Thomas Griffiths married into business.  Its amazing really Llanddewi Brefi is pretty small when it comes to population and one would think tracing someone in that area would be simple enough....wrong, there are just so many with the family name of Lewis, and Edwards, I really pull my hair out on times.

Would the 1861 census details give any clues

[hanes teulu]

1861
Mary Anne Lewis, Head, Widow, 45 Dressmaker, Gorwydd
Micah Lewis, Son, 10, Gorwydd
Charles Lewis, son, 8, Gorwydd
Penuwch, Llanddewi Brefi, Gorwydd

1861 Rg09 4203 88 2
John Lewis, Head, 45, farmer 40 Acres, St Peters Carms
Margaret Lewis, wife, 46, Llanddewibrefi
Margaret Lewis, Dau, 17,      "
David Evan Lewis, Son, 12,     "
Thomas Lewis, Son, 9,            "
John Lewis, Son, 4,                 "
Micah Lewis, Son 2,                "
Beilimadeg (?), Garth and Ystrad 

1841 HO107 1376 15/7 7
Micah Lewis, 45, Shopkeeper, NOT born County
Elizabeth Lewis, 45, NOT born County
John Lewis, 20, NOT born County
Hannah Lewis, 16, born Cardiganshire
Margaret Morgan, 25, H.S, born Cardiganshire.
Address Llanddewibrefi Gorwydd

Can't find David Lewis in 1841 (too many Davids!).

Both David Lewis (weaver) and Micah Lewis (shopkeeper) originally hail from Carmarthenshire.  The 1851 Census has David from "St Peters" and Micah from "Town, Carms" - brothers possibly?

John Lewis above is also from St Peters and the 1841 Census has a John and Micah together.

Possibilities?

regards

[Dannemois]

Gosh you have truly put some time into this and I can not thank you enough.  Looking at the entry 1841 for Micah Lewis, shopkeeper with daughter Hannah.  Could this be the answer to your earlier question "did Thomas Griffiths marry into business" 

[hanes teulu]

Dannemois

Yes.

My initial post identified Micah, Shopman and daughter Hannah, age 26 on the '51 Census. Is this the Hannah that Thomas married - if he married a Lewis?

If he did marry this Hannah Lewis, and there are other Lewis' living with him in 1861, is this a coincidence or are they family eg cousins to Hannah?

Something to ponder

regards

[Dannemois]

Sorry for the delay in coming back, I have been trying to locate the population figures for the area during the time.  From my knowledge the whole area is made up of  farming communities and each area had a small population.  I would presume many inhabitants lived their whole lives in the locality other than those who moved during the industrial period.  My grandfather David Edwards was one who moved and in later years, half the household, recorded on the census returns were listed as being born in Llanddewi Brefi while the other half in Lancaster.

I believe your thoughts of cousins etc living in the same household on the 1861 census is a valid one; and in my experience, not unusual for those difficult times.

Could I ask for your help in locating Thomas Griffiths & Hannah on the 1871?


Best Regards