Dr BLACK, Collins Street Melbourne

[tropicalj]

Thanks Tropical, No, they were quite well placed but remember these were times when folk used their initiatives and skills having left the 'home lands'. Yes, Mum recalls all Uncles and we sat down yesterday and she ticked them off on a list and married up their respective wives. We didn't go so far to do the children she recalled but will do another day.
Uncles list-:
Wilfred,
Harold,
Lesley,
Keith
Arthur
I found two male children one died at 7 hours old and another at 3 months in 1885. ( Possibly twins) Won't post the refs until I learn more. If they are siblings to Olive Mary and her Sister and their brothers then that is more sadness for Olive and Louisa.

I find this  an interesting statement as Olive Mary 's folk were New Zealand born  and bred  as well as her parents etc  as it would appear  they had Maori heritage.

It is all well and good to summarise and fanatsise about why our forebears did this and that. However there is still nothing to prove she went to Australia when it has been pointed out that she learnt the piano  in NEW ZEALAND from a Miss Black

Jenn

[cando]

Hi, Can anyone tell me any pointers on this chap and the premises he had in Collins Street? It would be around 1870-1930'ish. My Grandmother resided with his household circa 1870/1890 at a guess; he left a property at Collins Street to her. This is a gap in our Granny's life. My Mother knows this much but no more. Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks. An address number would be a great help and any info on the Doctor? (My Mum will be 90 in December - this gives you a timeline for events)

another thing my Mother keeps going on about- All Saints Church

Glamis


Dr Thomas BLACK
Property in Collins Street - with many beneficiaries possibly not sold until after Land tax 'hearing' in 1933.
All Saints Anglican Church St Kilda -  The first trustees of the land were Dr Thomas Black [of Cintra],
Three sons, Charles, Frederick and Hugh stated as 'well set up in NZ'

I really can't see it as Dr Thomas Black

Glamis
We can only give you information/facts as we find them.

My Grandmother resided with his household circa 1870/1890 at a guess; he left a property at Collins Street to her.

Glamis
I find it odd that you didn't know the year of birth [1883] of your grandmother.  Even if your mother was unable to help you, her death certificate would have given you this information. Surely you mother would have known the age of her mother at death. 

Mum says her Mother got this 'ATCL' which meant she could teach music at 14 years old

Glamis
Mary appeared to receive most of her piano tuition in New Zealand with her junior exam in 1894 in NZ aged 11 years so the story of obtaining an "ACTL" in Australia is not plausible.  Mary didn't pass her senior exams until 1899 aged 16 years so wouldn't have been qualified to teach at 14 years of age.   I do wonder could the 'ACTL" actually be Associate [A.T.C.L.] Performing Diploma from Trinity College London.    

I would suggest doing the factual family research.....purchase some certs.....lost of resources online in NZ....and then 'put the meat on the bones'.  Glamis we are all capable of searching the online NZ bdm's so really no need to post your research here....as I mentioned, going off a tangents often deters others from helping....as is reading long wordy posts.

Good luck
Cando

[miabar]

What an amzing story. I was spellbound. I dont have any info sorry, just started reading and couldnt stop. Isnt genealogy great

[judb]

Most of the marriage notices of Dr Thomas's children were at All Saints, East St Kilda.  It is on the corner of Dandenong Rd and Chapel St.

 If you googlemap you can see Cintra Ave off Chapel St and there is a big house just to the south of Cintra Ave on Chapel St. This big house is now part of St Michaels School, and certainly looks old enough to be the Cintra of Dr Thomas. You can get a street view of the house by clicking on the red tear-drop thingy - drag it along to look at the house. Wonder if your mum recognises it??

Judith

[cando]

Hi Judith
'Cintra' is listed as demolished and its location was Chapel Street, south west cnr Charlotte Street, in the vicinity of what is now Cintra Avenue.  Melways 58 D8.  It was Glamis's grandmother who visited Aus.  I am not going to pursue this search as there appears to be some doubt about our finds and it has been a time consuming search...well for me. 

Cheers
Cando

[Glamis]

Dear All, Thanks again for all your input. Odd as you find it Cando, that my Mum didn't know her Mother's date of birth nor did I, but this is true and it is only in the last year her Mother's Maori names- Te Akau have been reawakened from her memory vaults. There in lies the current day problem. Remember my Mum will be 90 her self soon and she is a long way from home and is recalling info from days long gone. Therefore allowances need to be made. The wealth of history she holds is only adding to our own wealth in knowledge and it is a privilege to be able to talk directly to a person who has experience of life at these times. Getting back to the question posed of which Dr Black and which property at Collins street in Melbourne?' You're pointers JudB are most helpful. I will look at these. I have rechecked the situation with my Mother's account of things- yes, her Mum did reside with a Dr Black and yes, a Dr Black did leave a property to her in Collins Street, Melbourne but no, she did not live in Melbourne she stayed in NZ. This tightens things up far better. It may have been one of these sons; either Charles, Frederick or Hugh perhaps? Thanks Cando. The NZ posting board is better to search these options further with regard to the question of which Dr Black but obviously not with regard to the question of the property.

[Glamis]

Just to say, I have found reference to Dr Thomas Black having another son William http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=TS18931214.2.18&srpos=51&e=-------10--51----0Dr+Black--
 Further on from that and another article a list of Doctors inclusive of Sir Truby King, I believe perhaps the Dr Black associated with my Grandmother is perhaps the Professor mentioned in the article?

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=ST18910309.2.18&srpos=140&e=-------10--131----0Dr+Black-

It appears he did have connections with Melbourne and I think the difficulties lie with the name of Black and the fact that there were many Doctor Blacks.
The links below demonstrate this. Again, knowing which Dr Black was The Dr Black is the question:-

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=TT18881020.2.7&srpos=530&e=-------10--521----0Dr+Black--

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=ODT18800618.2.23&srpos=412&e=-------10--411----0Dr+Black-- 

[cando]

What makes you think that Dr Thomas BLACK had two sons named William?  I can't follow your reasoning.  Re-read the thread...William's occupation has already been posted.  Not your Professor Black.

Cando

[tropicalj]

As you say your mother is 90 and you have to make allowances for that fact.

Perhaps if there was a property your grandmother was left in Melbourne and the time frame given by you I feel has now been discounted  by  the various newspaper clippings on her muscial achievements in New Zealand, you could try a different tack as find  the solicitor  who must have handled the beguest eiher in Australia or New Zealand 

Do you have any knowledge of  where abouts your grandparents lived in  the 1930's

When did you mother leave NZ to go to the UK???

Jenn