John Loughlin, Ponui Island, Thames *COMPLETED*

[Lin Up a Tree]

That's awesome Lindy & Althea, some good extra info to go by! 

I presume if he was a charity case there would be no headstone, or other family nearby if he was estranged from them.

The cemetery index record for John does say "no headstone". However, according to the index via http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/dbtw-wpd/CityArchives/FamilyHistory/ACC333/searchindexes.htm, the 1890-1891 Burgess Roll for the City of Auckland shows LOUGHLIN, Saml. Jamison, Coal Dealer -- owned a wood building on East Street (despite Samuel appearing to be still a resident in Thames at the same time). Which suggests to me that there was family, or a family-owned building, in the area that John died; pretty much at the time he died.

I have also recently been told by another researcher that everything they have heard points to him having just walked away from the family.

It's certainly hard to explain the fact that no member of the family is mentioned on the death cert; or why John & Eliza aren't buried together. Those are big key points.

Just kind of odd though how John is referred to so naturally in the 1904 & 1905 obituaries for his wife & daughter here http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=THS19040729.2.15&l=mi&e=-------100--401-byDA---0rugby+japan-- and here http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=THS19050203.2.40&l=mi&e=-------10--1----0Western+Star+Editor.

What an amazing mystery.  Will cross my fingers for you again that something new comes to light.

[Thamesite2017]

I agree 100% with above
Such a well known family in the area at the time, and the head missing
What gets me is that Thames burgess roll, for the wife to have the properties listed, you would have thought he was dead at that stage and that she had inherited them...otherwise the property would still have been in husbands name 
Bye
Althea

[Lin Up a Tree]

Wow, Althea, those are two super important points.   

(Just brainstorming here:) what scenarios do you think could occur in the late 1800s whereby a husband is alive but his wife would technically own property?
Would she automatically get the property if he abandoned the family?
If he was missing presumed dead? (You'd think with a well-known family there'd be mention in the newspaper of that though?).
What about something rendering him incapable, such as illness, or imprisonment? (The latter you'd also expect to find some court case esp. if he's away for years). I wonder how long John was in Auckland Hosptial for?


I also have found a couple of new things re: Duncan McPHERSON, City Missionary (on John's death certificate).

Firstly, this sheds more light on the actual role of this City Missionary:
http://www.presbyterian.org.nz/archives/Page181.htm
"Duncan McPHERSON... Appointed to the Auckland Presbyterian City Mission in 1884, visiting door to door, finding out the lapsed Presbyterians and the children not attending any Sunday School, also the Gaol, Hospital, Veteran’s Home, Mental Asylum, Hospital, Nurses’ Home, and newly arrived immigrants. Acted as Auckland City Missionary for 29 years."


Secondly,  there's a chance that Duncan McPHERSON may have actually been known to the family.

For example, here is Duncan McPHERSON involved with St. James Presbyterian Church, Pollen Street, Thames in 1889: http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=THS18890513.2.9&l=mi&e=-------10--51----0burnley%2C+lancashire-all

We also have "Mrs LOUGHLIN" in the Index of Names (1872-1894) in "Seat Letting Cash Book"  of the same church: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~babznz/stjameschurchthames.html)


So Duncan McPherson: was he visiting the Hospital by coincidence when John died? Or was he a family friend or minister? Was he the one who provided the birthplace & length of residency in NZ? Or did the Hospital? John's accent might have made the birthplace obvious, but how would someone else know the length of residency? Wouldn't it be easier to know or find out the name of his wife & kids?

Which makes me wonder: could it be possible at all that John's family intended to complete the rest of the details on the death cert, but for some reason didn't? Did the family rely on someone like Duncan McPherson to take care of the paperwork for them? Is Eliza Jane mentioned on the certificate?  (Just thought also, as for his parents, maybe she didn't even know who his parents were).


Lindy -- I think one next step (just a suggestion) might be to go ahead and contact the Waikumete Cemetery to see if they hold records on who purchased John's (Presbyterian) grave (& also whether he's buried with anyone). What do you think?

[lindynz]

Wow, Duncan McPherson sounds like an interesting character. I would love to know if he had any connection to the rest of  the family, maybe they asked him  to watch out for him. I suspect that for whatever reason he left the family it wasn't something they wanted to be made public, I can only guess what the reason might have been.

I have never seen any mention of his origins in Ireland, other than that he was from Comber in County Down. I wonder if even he knew little about his own family, no information seems to have been passed down. No mention of parents, wife or children on the death certificate, so obviously none of them were there to give that information, but they would have known that he died- he is referred to as the "late" John Loughlin after 1892. But- if he had a chance to tell McPherson how long he had been in NZ you would think he would also have said something about having a family so it's strange they aren't mentioned.

Hopefully some time soon the family will get a chance to visit Waikumete cemetery to try to find out more about the burial plot, so fingers crossed they have information about who purchased it.

[Janette]

Hopefully some time soon the family will get a chance to visit Waikumete cemetery to try to find out more about the burial plot, so fingers crossed they have information about who purchased it.

Hi Lindy

It may pay to email the cemetery office,the printouts they have do not have the purchasers name on them.They may be able to check the archives

Cheers Janette

[Janette]

Hi again,
Archives Auckland hold the Auckland Hospital registers of patients,there is a cardex to look up and then you can request to look at the register.
There is usually quite a bit of info in them
name,age,native of,years in NZ,last residence,occupation,malady,date admitted,date discharged or death,

Cheers Janette

[Janette]

Hi ,
Here is the entry from the hospital register at Archives

Registration  number :3514
Admission date: Aug 13th 1892
Name: LAUGHLIN John
Age: 68
Marital status: W
Native of:Ireland
In NZ: 27 yrs
Late Residence: Riverhead
Occupation: Labourer
Malady: Necrosis of Toe
Date of Discharge or Death:Sept 28th
Recovered:
Relieved:
Not improved:
Died: X
Religion: Presbyterian
Number of day in hospital:46
Ward :1

Note the W under marital status

Cheers Janette

[lindynz]

Hmm, that's interesting. I wonder why he was listed as widowed? Either he lied about his family status or it's the wrong guy. But I'm pretty sure it's him because we know he came to NZ in 1865 with daughters Sarah and Isabella (the rest of the family arrived the following year). Perhaps a husband who spent over a year without his family preferred to be single?
Unless there was another John Loughlin who arrived around the same time, but I'm not aware of any other J.L. that would fit.

[Thamesite2017]

I would think this confirms it isn't the right person
??what do you think Jeanette
Bye
Althea