Clark, Sheaf, Waterman of Portsea

[sparkgirl]

Thanks for the info I have found this marriage before and have excluded it because in the 1841 Census - Elizabeth states she is not from this county!

Elizabeth Cole I traced was born in Hampshire!

Leah Clarke was christened in Portsea 20 Sep 1812 @ Saint Peters Dainel St Wesleyan, Portsea.

Regards
Sparkgirl

[Little Nell]

Interesting - I wonder why the parents went back to an anglican church for the baptism of the later children?

Makes me wonder if this is the right marriage.  There are other baptisms in Wymering after 1812, so I think that one can be ruled out.    Curiouser and curiouser - there is a marriage in Chichester, Sussex in 1813 for a James Clark and Elizabeth Cole - James was a widower at that date from Widley in Hampshire.

From what you say, Elizabeth died before 1851?

Nell

[sparkgirl]

Little Nell

I think they could both be dead!

However I am more certain that James is dead, there are several potential Elizabeths still alive - however I think if she was a alive and James was dead she would be living with one of her children!

And of course there are several potential burials for both James & Eliz and with the current price of certs that could prove an expensive search.

Leah was still in Rudmore - and I can't from memory remember where the other children are?

The other James Clarke & Elizabeth (Cole) are still around in 1851 as well from memory.

I hoping to go back the archives searching for their burials - all of the New's are buried in St Mary's, I'm guessing the Clarkes are well so that my starting point. The on-line material is imcomplete for this time period!

Regards
Chrissie - Sparkgirl

[sparkgirl]

James and Elizabeth marriage

One other thing - at least three other cousins have searched for the marriage and not found it or excluded potential marriages for various reasons.

And of course if Elizabeth is not from Hampshire they could have met and married somewhere else!

Or even got married in a non-anglican church!

Geneology - a world of unanswered questions!

[Tom Piper]

Anyone interested in a Cornelius Sheaf of Rudmore, he died on 6th February 1876 aged 47:


Births, Deaths, Marriages and Obituaries .
Hampshire Telegraph and Sussex Chronicle etc (Portsmouth, England), Saturday, February 19, 1876; Issue 4540.

On the 6th instant at Rudmore Square, Landport, Cornelius Sheaf, aged 47.

He was in and out of the courts for minor offences, ever since 1852, when he three a stone at a girl.

Tom

[mrsh6nz]

Cornelius was Louisa Sheaf's brother - he and another brother Aaron, and their father Aaron, were all in trouble with the law at different times.  Life was probably pretty hard for them all after the loss of Elizabeth and Constance.


sparkgirl - I have an Elizabeth Silvester as James Clark's wife, married 28 May 1797 St Mary's, Portsea, Hampshire, England, however I got this from other people's family trees, and I am not entirely convinced this is correct.  This Elizabeth was born in Farlington, Hampshire, which doesn't fit with the 1841 census record, and neither does her age, as she was born in 1773 so would have been about 68 in 1841, not 60. 

Other family trees also have two older siblings James (born 1795 - illegitimate) and Harriet (born 1798), but then there is a huge gap to Leah born in 1812, so I am wondering if James Clark and Elizabeth Silvester, with James and Harriet, may be a different family??  Have you come across them?

I also have another sibling for Leah, Jacob and Esau, and Adam - a sister Emily, born in 1817, but I can find no other records for her. 

Had another look at the 1841 census record, and there is a mark in the final column, where it indicates if they were born in Scotland, Ireland or elsewhere - it could be an I for Ireland ??

[sparkgirl]

James Clarke and Elizabeth ? - When and where they married - The big question to which nobody seems to have answer!

There are eight potential marriages in the IGI and I have discounted all them for various reasons:- (Continues in next post!)
 
1. JAMES CLARK – Elizabeth Clungeon 19 OCT 1795 Alverstoke, Hampshire,
This James is a medical doctor and sailed on one of the voyages with Darwin.

2. JAMES CLARK – Elizabeth Fuller 24 FEB 1797 Holy Trinity, Gosport, Hampshire
3. JAMES CLARK – Elizabeth Silvester 28 MAY 1797 Saint Marys, Portsea, Hampshire,
4. JAS. CLARK – Elizabeth Castle 21 Apr 1797, Hampshire
For both 2-4 from the 1841 census James and Elizabeth were born 1780 including the rounding up or down they would have been born between 1777 & 1783. As an Agricultural Labour he would be unlikely to marry until he was 25 for either of these marriages to be correct he would be marrying young age 20 (yes it would be possible), and the couple would still be having children in their 40s (again still possible).

5. JO'S. CLARK - Eliz'Th. Spraggs 25 Sep 1805 Portsea, Southampton.
6. JAMES CLARKE – Elizabeth Cole 11 MAY 1807 Wymering, Hampshire.
For both 5&6 the date would be about right/ a little early, but more likely than marriages 2-3.

7. JAMES CLARKE - Libey Ireland 23 Aug 1813 Wootton-St. Lawrence, Hampshire,
8. JAS. CLARK – Elizabeth Flower 22 Dec 1815, Hampshire groom’s age 23, bride’s age 22
The last two marriages I have excluded as possibles 7, due to the location and 8 due to young ages for both bride and groom.

[sparkgirl]

Continues from previous post
The potential brides (again Info from IGI) :-
1. Elizabeth Fuller m 24 FEB 1797 Holy Trinity, Gosport, Hampshire
Not an obvious Hampshire birth!

2. Elizabeth Silvester m 28 MAY 1797 Saint Marys, Portsea, Hampshire,
Several poss most likely Ch 31/10/1773 St Andrew’s Farlington d of John Silvester & Anne

3. Elizabeth Castle m 21 Apr 1797, Hampshire
At a guess Ch 15/12/1771 Cowes, IOW d of James Castle & Ann

4. Eliz'Th. Spraggs m 25 Sep 1805 Portsea, Southampton.
Several poss most likely Ch 18/11/1783 Portsea d of Robert Spragg & Elizabeth

5. Elizabeth Cole m 11 MAY 1807 Wymering, Hampshire.
Several poss most likely Ch 08/05/1785 Wymering d of John Cole & Elizabeth

The only other clue to who is Elizabeth is in the 1841 Census where along with here age it states not born in this county & I (Ireland), so with that in mind it excludes brides 2-5 - leaving Elizabeth Fuller.

So in answer to the query I can see why Eliz Silvester has been identified as James's wife, but there are too many inconsistencies which in my mind exclude her. Also I don't see any good justification to say that Elizabeth Fuller is the wife and mother either - so for me it is still an unanswered question!

Regards
Sparkgirl

[sparkgirl]

There is an Elizabeth Clark(e) from Ireland age 70ish in the 1851 census in Portsea - can anybody get the family details for her?

Rgs
Sparkgirl