Struggling to start

[abbey2]

Hi avm 228,
No, AEM has not been traced. Someone did kindly check the Electoral Register for Upper Woburn Place, but the people there had a completely different name, no sign of AEM and those initials don't fit with any of the now known family members of Cecilia.

[lizdb]

So - it seems that when Annie/Cecilia/Glorie  de Monti/Montgomery  gave birth to/looked after/fostered/adopted  Pierre/David  de Monti/Montgomery
she was still single. And in fact as you have her death too, she never married.

At least that is one thing straight!

[abbey2]

That pretty much sums it up    So now you can see why we need help    The GRO Adoption index is only available in a few places including The British Library, London Met, Westminster Archives as well as Manchester and Plymouth.  We don't live near any of them.    So if anyone is going and have the time to look at the register for the period after July 1935 it might help us out immensely.  Our best guess is that the adopted name would be DE MONTI or MONTGOMERY. 

Thanks for your help,

Lynn

[lizdb]

I would think official adoption is very unlikely as she was unmarried. It is only in more recent years that single people have been considered appropiate to adopt.

As Pierre gives no father on his marriage cert (if adopted, he would likely give his adopted father) this, I think, does indicate that it is unlikely that he was officially adopted by Cecilia or anyone.

[lizdb]

We know it's the same person because of the address (and date of birth on the 1939) also during the 1930's her sister Elizabeth and brother Edward variously lived at the same address or next door.

Do Edward and Elizabeth use a variety of names, or are they consistantly Montgomery?
Do we know Cecilia/Glories occupation? I wonder if she was a singer / actress/ and de Monti was a stage name?  Not that Pitsea is really a centre for entertainment arts .....
IF that was the case, what on earth could she have been doing that involved her son (natural, adopted, fostered, whatever) so that he too had a stage name Pierre de Monti, as well as natural name David Montgomery.
Do you know what your late father did for a living?

Another thought - have you checked Scotland for his birth? If that is where her family came from (if he is Cecilia/Glorie's child) ahe may have gone home for the actual birth.

[abbey2]

Thanks for your replies.  While I agree that it is unlikely single women adopted, we wondered if Glorie/Cecilia did marry, but not in the UK and was therefore a widow.  We know she was using the name MONTGOMERY in 1916.  She may have spent time in France/Belgium during the war, and could have met and married over there.  Her husband if she married was probably killed.  So by the time she returned to the UK she may have been a widow.  (The name DE MONTI is very rare in the UK, but more common in northern France/Belgium.)  We do know she was using the name DE MONTI in 1929/30 on the voters roll for Pitsea.  She also named another child in her care DE MONTI, born 1930, but we know she was definitely NOT the mother.  We have been in contact with this person, and there are differences in how they were treated.  This is why we wondered if Pierre was adopted.  But he just as easily could have been fostered.  We have checked the births for Scotland and drew a blank.

Edward and Elizabeth consistantly used the name MONTGOMERY as far as we can tell.  Glorie listed her occupation as a Private Governess/Teacher.  Checking the adoption register is more about not leaving stones unturned, but it would be good to rule it out.

Lynn

[Ruskie]

The first thing I thought of when I read your post was that even though he SAID he was born in London, may he have been born abroad?

....My late father Pierre DE MONTI was born in July 1935 and lived in or around London as a small child and then moved to Westmorland in 1959.  We have never been able to find a birth registration even though he always said he was born in London.....
Lynn

Now you have mentioned a possible connection with France or Belgium, I wonder if it would be worth trying to search for him in these countries?

I don't envy you as this is SO difficult but I wish you luck. You already seem to have been quite thorough in your search but is there anyone at all still alive who may be able to shed any light on this mystery, no matter how small - even a passing comment that would normally be dismissed? The other De Monti child b 1930 perhaps? Any old neighbours/friends? 

[abbey2]

Hi Ruskie,

We are in contact with another person who we know was fostered by Glorie DE MONTI/MONTGOMERY.  He has been very helpful, but due to age, his memory is limited.  Even so we were able to establish that Glorie took in children.  We have no evidence of Glorie actually going to France/Belgium, it is only a guess as we have researched the name DE MONTI in this country and as far as we can in Europe.  From that research we have established that the surname DE MONTI is VERY rare in this country, but not quite so in northern France/Belgium.  As many women went to France during WW1 to assist in the war effort it seemed possible that if she had married, it could have been there.  But we can find no record.  We know from this research that Pierre was given the name DE MONTI by Glorie, and was not his birth name.  We don't know when she and her siblings moved to the Essex area, but we know they were living there in 1929/30 when the voters roll was prepared.  Pierre in his passport gave his place of birth as London.  We have checked with the Passport Office, but information was limited.  We have his Army records, along with his NI records.  So far we have been able to build up a picture from about the age of 4 but no earlier.  The only thing we haven't checked is the GRO Adoption Index, but these are only available in limited places and we don't live anywhere near any of them.  That's why we are asking if someone who is going to any of the locations could have a look for us.  But we keep looking 

[toni*]

it is my understanding that the GRO hold an index for adopted children, when they are given a new identity they are reregistred have you contacted the GRo and asked them for a check for Davie and Pierre?